New Water Spell

Well, water kinda sucks, we all know it and we all know that silence is going to get a re-write, so lets see if we can put our heads together and come up with something good. In the spirit of water it should have something to do with essence, because the main body of water, the ocean is near endless. We should try to come up with 3 spells, though only 2 maybe required. My favorite spell idea is

Torrent
Channeling
For .2*essence seconds you create a large torrent of water which cones out from your position. Each wave takes 20 mana to make and upon hitting does 1/4*crushing wave damage.
recharge 30
cost 100/125/150

I think we need to establish what water's primary role should be before we start coming up with spells. Generaly that is, so we can make some synergy with other spells and what not. I really don't think "mana" is it's general theme, or it's a lousy one since all mages need mana. Remember, it's in general what it's best at...Not the only thing it can do.

For example:

Fire = AoE
Earth = Melee stunners
Light = Support healer
Wind = Versatile supporter
Lightning = Single target Hero killer
Dark = Unique special situation mage
Ice = Mass slower

Now water should be...some type of support, I guess mana supporter?

Silence - I actually think that spell Rhys was talking about earlier could be used here...

Mana Flare - Creates a ward that does damage to enemy casters. Does 0.5/0.75/1x power damage for every mana point enemy mages use in a 500/600/700 AoE of the ward.

Fit's the role of silence and mana IMO.

I'm not sure who thought of this idea originally, but it was fairly popular. My exact suggestion is something like this:

Torrent
Channeling
Mana Cost: 100 then 5 per second
Launches a 1/4 power Crushing Wave every second in the same patter that Stampede does. (They start behind you at a random point, and move straight forward.)


It sounds like a fun ultimate to replace Sea Element Morph. Another option:


Torrent
Channeling
Mana Cost: 400
5*power damage in 350 aoe around you, anything hit has a Geyser cast on it's position.


Neither of those are probably balanced, and the second one isn't very polished at all. But, I basically want to make use of either Crushing Wave or Geyser (or both) in an ultimate spell that is actually focused on doing aoe damage. (Maybe also restoring mana to allies.)

I definately agree that the Sea Elemental Morph ultimate replacemenet should use other spells for it's usage, like every other element. A la TS/Orbs/Erupt/Holy nova etc.

For the role of Water, I think it should be mana regeneration to itself and allies primarily, then support such as disables and buffs, then aoe damage that can be sustained well. Fire does great burst damage, Water should do great DOT in AOE. There are alot of things we can think of using the theme of supporting allied mana. I don't think Water should be focused on killing mages, and it doesn't need any single target nuke spell besides Bubble IMO.

I would like to see spells that support allies by giving them alot of mana, maybe resetting cooldowns, maybe increasing max mana as a buff, maybe a sort of mini-Mana Shield that you can cast on allies, a debuff for enemies possibly, and some aoe damage. That is how I envision Water.


Ok, spell idea:


Water Sphere (Name is unimportant, but I realize this name is lame.)
Single target buff/debuff
Mana Cost: 200
Duation: 30 seconds
If this is cast on an ally, they become protected by a shield that can withstand 3*your power. Cast on an enemy causes them to lose .2*your power in mana every second.


Just an example, and probably not balanced again. I realize it is similar to Vapor Shield, but I was thinking something more along the lines of the spell in Impossible Bosses that gives you the yellow hp bar above your head. (I'm sure Jay will know what I am talking about and clarify if need-be.) The most interesting part would be the interaction between this and Vapor Shield. This could be a possible remake for Silence, Phase Shift, Water Elemental, or Replenish.

I like your concept and themes that water can follow for it's spells. I know what spell you're talking about..but I don't know if that would be best for water...I do however like the mana drain part of it.

Like I said, not perfect. That was just an example to get people thinking, and I'm glad you like my concept of what Water should be.

Well we all know light does hp and dips into mana, maybe something that does the same for water? I mean our bodies are what? 98% water? Ya know I find it a little odd that it can't heal, like manipulate the water to make new cells etc. So I purpose this spell

Healing Mist:
Heals all allied units in an area for x*power a second and lasts y seconds. The mist also obscures the area, making it more difficult for enemies to attack.

That is a little too boring for my taste, how about something like:

Restores allies hp and mana in an area by x*power, and drains 3/4/5 mana per second from enemies in the area. (HP and mana restoration does not effect yourself. We don't want another Restore. Also, X would be a small number, like .2 or something.)

Dragonheart91 wrote:

That is a little too boring for my taste, how about something like:

Restores allies hp and mana in an area by x*power, and drains 3/4/5 mana per second from enemies in the area. (HP and mana restoration does not effect yourself. We don't want another Restore. Also, X would be a small number, like .2 or something.)

I suggested this to Sin ages ago, then re-told Rhys. (A while ago)

To MY knowledge he agreed upon this. However I guess he will have to reply here for a definite answer.

Dragonheart91 wrote:

maybe a sort of mini-Mana Shield that you can cast on allies, a debuff for enemies possibly

That reminded me of something a mage said to me in my WoW days. "Mana shield is the only defensive spell that sucks so bad it would make a good offensive spell". That doesnt really apply in this game, as mana shield is a fairly good defense, but the idea is still there. A mana shield that you cast on an enemy before nuking him to take out his mana, doubt it would pan out in MMM as we know it, what with it being far easier to just kill said mage outright. But eh, an idea is an idea.

I personaly don't like mana sheild . I find in comparison to Vapor sheild it's total garbage. However, it is alright...and don't see it being remade because people would complain.

On those mist skills...

Releases a water vapor that can differentiate freind from foe. 700 AoE mist in a circular fashion. Takes the mana from all enemies in the area and gives it to allies. 1/1.5/2x power mana drained per second. Mist lasts for 2/3/4 seconds.

I like that idea alot, but a potential 8*power mana drained and gained is huge. I would suggest changing it from a set duration, to mana drain per second. 50 mana to activate, and it drains 100 mana per second while active. If your actually hitting an enemy, your getting your mana back though with a little bonus. Reasonable cooldown of like 20 seconds, so you can't just toggle it on and off all the time.


With that change, anyone with big mana could set-up a whole field for as much as 10 seconds (Actually doing it for 10 seconds would mean spending ALL of your mana unless you were hitting enemies with it.) that the enemy would desperately avoid. If they were actually hitting with it, or positioned it properly, it could stay active until the enemy moved away.

No sir. Has to be a duration. Otherwise it's beyond OP on NPC heroes. It's now 0.5/0.75/1x power for 3/4/5 seconds.

You could still make the duration scale to your Essence. I like the idea of spells in Water scaling to Essence in addition to Power. Power will be their main damage or multiplier, but Essence can control their other functions such as range and duration.

In this case, duration could be Essense/10. I think that would be roughly fair, as a max power Water mage has 30-50 Essence usually. Could be 8 if that was too high.

I stand by spells having to be based off of power (or atleast capped) and a static number. Essence/Stamina etc. shouldn't have a DIRECT role in the spell. The only role would be self damage/mana to use.

I'm not asking for Essence based damage, as I find that to be a bad idea too. The thing is, if your Power is low but Essence is high, you could channel this for a long time, but it wouldn't do much. Power is still the dominant factor, but having a secondary usefulness of Essence encourages people to build high Essence mages for full effect.

Quote :

Essence/Stamina etc. shouldn't have a DIRECT role in the spell. The only role would be self damage/mana to use.

Static number for timing. Why should water be different from every other element? It allows a cap on the possible spell that makes it easily balancable. Otherwise, you could have enough Essence/Power to do too much damage/mana drain.
62 power/52 essence + stats from gear. No thanks. Balancing becomes a huge issue, when ANYTHING outside Power is a cap or a static number. Either it becomes useless with a normal build, or overpowered with a specialized build.

Another thing with the mist spell I'd like to see is that it obscures vision, and I was hoping it would heal some as well.

Well, the non-direct routes that I can think of involve draining mana per second or having a larger mana cost. For Stamina, it does self-damage, for Essence I was hoping it could be slightly more creative than just altered mana costs. Even with just that, having alot of channeled spells that drain mana per second with infinite duration could be a theme in Water. It would definitely make you consider more Essence, but at the same time, balanced Stamina would be needed so you could survive while channeling.

Nah. Light covers healing HP. Water should cover healing mana. I think removing vision on an already powerful skill is a lot.

Yes but light crosses over into healing mana, why can't water do the same? And I think the vision thing would actually weaken the skill cause people would know when they are being drained and run, and while your being healed it would make aim bolts and stuff all the harder cause you couldn't lead.

It crosses over with one spell >.<. Dark/Fire/Ice all dip into mana regeneration. I think it could support in some other way...perhaps a slow within the mist?

well it could buff those in the mist w/ a low level blind

body= 70% water.

healing mist could be a waterlight mspell.

we need something more along the lines of drown, im surprised that there is no aoe constant dps like earthquake.

lets think about water. water is life giving, water exists as lakes, rivers, oceans, and also as water vapor in the atmosphere. constant water themes are giving energy, waves, water blasts, whirlpools, rain, vapor, etc. thought of as a fluid element that can be themed as support or nuker; depending from game to game.


some ideas:

Flood: floods an area (aoe 325/425/525) for some time, restricting restricting movement and actions. changes enemy mana regeneration by (4/7/10*power)%, slowing by 8/12/16%, deals damage according to mana degenerated. lasts 15 seconds, drains mana as long as channeled. slow persists in the AoE until duration is up. medium cooldown.

Ripple: sends out a ripple effect in the surrounding area, silencing everything it hits for .6 seconds. ripple is generated at your feet. 2/2/3 ripples, deals 1/2/2*power. ripples die down at a 600aoe. this spell creates a buff on the caster that sends out a ripple every 2 seconds. instant, first ripple at one second. short-medium cooldown.

Whirlpool: by spinning water in multiple directions around a central point, the mage creates a devastating whirlpool effect. 500AoE, <200distance to center= 30%slow, .6,.8,1*power per second, <500distance to center= 10% slow, .4/.5/.6*power per second. lasts 5 seconds. channeling. graphical effect is a giant 'stun' icon, and a farsight, with water. long cooldown.

Water Sphere: adds a buff to an enemy that constantly drains mana by 6/9/12*power%. if used on an ally, adds a buff that reduces spell damage that they take by .3/.5/.7*essence. lasts 10 seconds on enemies, 100 seconds on allies. ally-buff goes away 3 seconds after taking spell damage. short-medium cd.

Liquid Sunshine: channeling. replenishes mana to all allies in a 625 AoE. mana replenished per second= .5*(power+essence). lasts 12 seconds. at the end of the duration, nearby allies (and you) get the 'water sphere' buff. additional 10 mana if used at daytime. one level. +1 mana for every level in bubble aura and water sphere.


some remakes: rename phase shift to 'diffuse'; description: the mage diffuses themself into water vapor, temporarily avoiding harm. phasing out of existence makes no sense.