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 State of the Game - Semi-Unstable (6/2/2008)

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SinisteRing
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PostSubject: State of the Game - Semi-Unstable (6/2/2008)   Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:06 pm

Note: If you don't feel like reading everything, skip down to the bottom after "The Point."

I've been thinking... about where MM&M is... and where it's going. I've been thinking... about how this game could evolve over the next few months. I've been thinking... about how much effort and time I've been putting into it to make it achieve as much as possible in the shortest span possible.

And I've been thinking about what others said to me... to take a break, to go on vacation.

It doesn't seem possible at the moment. I can't break away from school, and am being overloaded with work and a huge deadline of C's or better in all classes. I currently maintain a C average for all classes except for 2 (although one of them is a B instead of a C). This can be changed easily, and I will be doing so to keep my computer over the summer. This is requiring a bit more home effort than I thought and has influenced my decision on the topic of working on MM&M or not.

It also seems that I'm starting to lose a bit of interest in the playing of MM&M. I say that now, but whenever I actually play it... I love it! However, I like the modifications and development parts of my job as a developer. I like making the map work... creating new systems... throwing my ideas into a game that others actually like playing. I like it all, yet it seems... well... worthless.

It seems as though that the map goes unappreciated with each new version, with extreme criticism on the smallest parts of the map. "The scoreboard fails it doesn't keep accurate score!" and "The scoreboard is a bad addition to the game - noobs just take kills and think they're doing good..." The fact I even TRIED to put a scoreboard in before beta should be good enough. I said I'd be getting a new Advanced Scoreboard in the future and you all still insist on demanding a better scoreboard now! I've tried with almost all my waking hours out of school for the past month to make the new content, the new improvements, bug fixes, and minor balance issues.

It bothers me when I get repetitive comments on how much it sucks when each new version comes out. I don't need extreme criticism right now - I need constructive comments and simple phrases to point out what's wrong... and I need it ONCE. Allow the first person to say what's wrong, then reply with an agreement and any NEW information that you can point out. Example:

*Poster 1: Resurrection teleports players to the middle when they try resurrecting someone and the dead resurrects normally before them.
*Poster 2: I have seen this, and it only occurs with the host.
*Poster 3: It only works on the host.
*Poster 4: I know this bug has ruined so many of my games. (goes into anecdote about how it ruined his game one time...)

Poster 3's comment should be deleted in this case! It's been pointed out that it occurs, and it seems unnecessary to point out the same detail twice. If you give me less to read, I'll be able to get to it faster. Get my point?

Also, Poster 4 does not need to go into a little story about how this bug has ruined his game. If it's a bug, then it'll be fixed, wont it?

Also, I've been disappointed with the fact of how maintainable the coding of MM&M truly is. The map may need a total revamp, which I will attempt to be doing in stages over its development.


The Point:


I'll continue working on MM&M on June 21st, 7 days after my fathers birthday. (AND 2 DAYS AFTER RAPID'S BIRTHDAY!!!!!!!!!!)

I'm going to be posting new forum rules for Suggestion, Bug, and Balance forums. Moderators will be given new, extremely strict instruction to keep it clean and easy for me to read. I've gone through reading pointless nonsense for over a month now and little has been done to the map because of it. Once school is out, and MM&M has more content put into it, I will lift these instructions and rules so the jabbering can continue (since I wont have as much to deal with and actually have the time to read these pointless posts).

These rules will take effect on June 05, 2008.


Last edited by SinisteRing on Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:17 pm; edited 2 times in total
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diaster
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game - Semi-Unstable (6/2/2008)   Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:12 pm

looks like my newest thread will be deleted then, guess the idea was 2 little 2 late...
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SinisteRing
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game - Semi-Unstable (6/2/2008)   Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:17 pm

Okay then, point well taken... the rules wont apply until 3 more days pass, I've decided. Thanks for that short input.
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Dragonheart91
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game - Semi-Unstable (6/2/2008)   Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:19 pm

Sounds like a plan to me. I don't think any of us will mind the wait too much. As far as the criticism, as a map maker you should be able to ignore it, but I understand how it can wear on you. I want to point out that the people who criticize are just showing how much the care about the map. They want to see it improve or they wouldn't criticize! The only thing I might like (if you get a chance, but it isn't critical) would be one more map update to fix the version title and a couple of minor balance things. (It is very hard to tell if your play 7.09a or 7.09b, and the new AI in b makes it matter to me.) Just take it easy for a while and fix your grades!

Edit: From now on I will be making a second smaller post below the main one. In that, I will summarize what I have said. Sound good?

Summary: Don't let criticism bother you, and waiting shouldn't be a problem. But, one more version before you go might be helpful.
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Jay.J
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game - Semi-Unstable (6/2/2008)   Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:54 pm

As a creator of anything you will face critisism. Take a look at Zync, his durastic changes got major critisism but changed the map for the better. Know you are actually doing good for the map and are definately appreciated to the max.

In short I love you as much as one man can love another man he has never actually met, but has only talked to on the interweb. YES INTERWEB.

Want some appreciation? Here it is:

I LOVE YOU SINISTERING

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RapidFireOmega
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game - Semi-Unstable (6/2/2008)   Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:00 pm

I'm rly sry Sin, but i HAD to edit your post. It was 100% nessesary, don't get pissed plz.

On topic: Sounds good.

If you want short, by god you'll get short.
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Piddagoras
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game - Semi-Unstable (6/2/2008)   Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:11 am

There's always going to be someone who doesn't like the direction a game is going. Because of the nature of warcraft 3 map modification and the fact that it is for no pay, it's best to just ignore critics who can't articulate their thoughts in a positive manner.

Basically: You have no obligation to said critics, and they should be made to know that.

Enjoy your break Smile
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DarkDjinni
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game - Semi-Unstable (6/2/2008)   Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:16 am

I 100% agree that Spam should be deleted.
It is the most idiotic way to communicate. i try to read msot topics, about 50% of each topics content is just +1 posts.

(Remember my suggestions to make certain parts of forum not count towards posts, and that mods should be harsher)
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Dragonheart91
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game - Semi-Unstable (6/2/2008)   Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:24 am

I suppose we could buckle down, but conversation for it's own sake even when it doesn't add to the topic can often be a good distraction and help keep people interested in being in the community. However, I guess I will start splitting topics. If it goes off-topic, I will split. (I also agree that garbage can shouldn't count towards posts, but what can you do?)
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DarkDjinni
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game - Semi-Unstable (6/2/2008)   Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:25 am

Dragonheart91 wrote:
I suppose we could buckle down, but conversation for it's own sake even when it doesn't add to the topic can often be a good distraction and help keep people interested in being in the community. However, I guess I will start splitting topics. If it goes off-topic, I will split. (I also agree that garbage can shouldn't count towards posts, but what can you do?)

It is possible to make posts not count in certain parts of the forum.

Eg, If he made posts not count in Elements, no posts in any of the Elemental parts would count.
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Jay.J
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game - Semi-Unstable (6/2/2008)   Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:43 am

I tried myself to make the garbage can not count for any posts...snooped around a little bit but couldn't find anything to make it not count posts.

Ontopic: I'll start being a more strict mod...less conversation, more modding.

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TanK_OwneR
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game - Semi-Unstable (6/2/2008)   Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:43 pm

ok sins gone loopy before long we will read in the papers *boy stabs himself 15 time b/c of video game* and then parents everwhere will offically tell there kids no more video games or internet and long story short there will be no surviors and video games will become illegal
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SinisteRing
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game - Semi-Unstable (6/2/2008)   Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:46 pm

I truly hope you don't think I'm that mentally unstable.
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TanK_OwneR
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game - Semi-Unstable (6/2/2008)   Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:51 pm

uh uhm no no never
*puts a tranquilizer in the gun*
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Lagger09
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game - Semi-Unstable (6/2/2008)   Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:19 pm

I think a break will do you well, it will allow you to focus on schoolwork, or whatever comes your way. I sincerly hope it does you good. You may even find some answers to problems in MM&M that are vexxing you.

Please understand that we have the best for the map in our hearts, and the most obvious way to make a map better is by fixing its problems, hence why you tend to recive mainly criticism. I think I speak for most of us in the forums in saying that we would do whatever we could to make it easier to better and update the map. Whether that involves lifting responsibility, in the form of Forum Operator or Cheiftain, off of your shoulders, or something else. Zync was able to stay relatively detached from our opinions of the game, he knew that it was HIS map not the community's. Yes, he took our suggestions and advice, but he knew the ultimate descision was his. I hope that you can learn from him, and not take too much of our angry bull**** to heart. Please, Sin, try to slow down, release an update once a week, not once a day. A week will be plenty of time for us to find bugs for you, and you can fix them in the next version, and then release new content.

We, as the community, need to remember that this forum is a link between the map maker and the community, and if he says he isn't going to change somthing, then shut up about it, and don't bring it up again. Try to post mainly suggestions and constructive critisism. We can always make Sin's life easier.

Edit: Sorry about the wall of text, I can't think of a way to make it any shorter.
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game - Semi-Unstable (6/2/2008)   Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:50 pm

idea while you go on vacation or whatever...

1take a vacation
2have the mods create/add to a list for the new version according to suggestions, etc
3check back every now and then, week to two weeks
--4give a mod or two your aim (or something)
--5if something is urgent, (gamebreaking bug) someone contacts you through aim
6eventually, the list piles up, you come and edit it or leave it (for peeps to add more)
--7go back to 2 if you leave it, go to 8 if you accept it
8release a new version! then go back to 2

you can do this and keep it, or just until your grades pick up again... whatever. this is just to help sin. Very Happy
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diaster
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game - Semi-Unstable (6/2/2008)   Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:53 am

you don't seem to realize sin is the only one ACTUALLY working on the map.
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