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 State of the Game Address (05/29/2008)

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SinisteRing
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PostSubject: State of the Game Address (05/29/2008)   Thu May 29, 2008 6:54 pm

Due to popular demand, I am giving another State of the Game.

We are all aware of the Multi-Element Spellbooks now. We are also mostly aware that I made all of them in 3 days, and balance was in the back of my mind. That's what I've been wanting from the community ever since 7.00; some suggestions on how to balance the books. Unfortunately, not many have stepped forward and allowed me to take into consideration of what books need alterations. For this, any complaints about M-Spellbooks should go directly to the forums, not stay in-game where I cannot see them. I can only help you if you help me first.

I'd also like to tell you all that I've been pretty busy the past few weeks, and that's my excuse for the bad edits, bugs, and just plain stupid mistakes in the map. My brain is fried from how many projects, debates with teachers, and overall activity of the past 2 weeks. I've had nearly no time to test the map before release. With school winding down for me, I will hopefully still remain in possession of my computer to be able to keep working on Mages Magic & Mayhem. With my grades remaining somewhat low due to this recent overload and the activity of Mages Magic & Mayhem, I might be loosing my computer soon.


As a result of this, I will not be releasing another version of MM&M for another week or so, as long as there are no game-breaking bugs in the current version. My real life needs to be sorted out so I don't go into a state where I cannot make MM&M or play at all.

However, when I get back to Mages Magic & Mayhem, I will try to release 7.10 gloriously, with a bunch of coding optimization, which I theorize will make the game run faster and in turn give better FPS... etc. I've already done about an hour to an hour and a half of coding optimization, and it's looking good so far. I'd release a few of the other things I hope to put into 7.10, but I'd rather have them remain as a surprise to all of you to make it all the better.

People have been asking me to make a list of what M-Spells will come out next, what they'll be, when they should be expecting them all to be done, and other things like that. My full synopsis of how I will address M-Spells and their creation:


I will not release ANY of the ideas I have for future M-Spells for multiple reasons. Among these is the fact that I may not even make the spells (they might not be possible to code, even), that they will be changed along the creation of them, and, above all, I don't want people making mages directing solely towards what the next M-Spell(s) will be. This is because it will give those people an unfair advantage to gain progress towards the goal faster than anyone, planning their elements in order to be able to test, try, and exploit them the moment they come out.

People have also complained about how I have been balancing things recently. Others complain that whatever element I play I will complain about what destroys me and what I destroy at. However, my reasoning behind this comes fully from games played in -anns. The early game must be just as balanced as the late game... and if the early game gets buffed, so does the late game. Late game is designed to be as balanced as possible at the moment. I am destroying that to balance the early game, which I will then move on to balancing the late game.

My theory on this is that if I balance the late game fully from the get-go, then when I get to the early... the late game players will still have all the spells/abilities/effects they got from the early... which means that they'll be set off-balance completely and considered overpowered or underpowered. This purely means that no matter what you say about balance in the late-game, I will ignore it for now until I feel that the earliest stages of the gameplay have been balanced. If you truly want this to go faster, start using the -anns mode and give me balance replays/suggestions due to that mode.

I realize that the main game mode is based off of the save/load game... however I feel that for a new game, having a new player be playing against level 62's from the start is unfair, unappealing, and overall just plain not fun. You have been giving me suggestions to make this game more noob friendly... so play the noob-friendly mode and get some customers! I'm not the one who sets your game mode every single game. You have to influence/be the host make these decisions, and that's why the game modes were made in the first place.


Again, this means that I will be ignoring all late-game balancing suggestions/replays until the early stages are balanced enough to start with late-game buffing/nerfing. No more save/load replays, only -anns or -an.

The next topic I'll be bringing up is beta, as many people seem to be wondering when that will come out. Unfortunately and fortunately, due to the massive amount of planning I'm putting into the spell-making of M-Spells and the excellent ideas and suggestions being given through these forums, we may be headed way into version 8 or 9 to finally get to beta. It's either that we go to a version 8 or 9 with code resets, or we stay in version 7 and keep on going and going without new codes until all M-Spells are finished, I implement the anti-reset-cooldown system for book toggling, and I'm ready to make the new game style.

I need anyone/everyone's opinion on the above paragraph put in the poll.

While remaining on-topic with beta, I'd like to let everyone know my opinions/plans for hack prevention. I've basically solved the GUI XOR system puzzle, and know how to implement/use it. At the first sign BEFORE a code reset, I'll be implementing the system without changing the codes. This is to make sure that the hackers get a chance at breaking the code and pointing out any faults I may have made. I don't feel safe resetting the codes and having made a mistake to immediately have the new codes cracked immediately... resulting in another just plain hacked version with no protection and possibly leading to a dual-code-reset.

With a hint at how the new game mode will be played, it will happen after the great war is finished, whether everyone or no one has chosen neutrality. This means that if everyone chooses neutrality and decides not to do the great war at all, it may take some time for the next game style to occur. I'd also like to point out that I will be trying to make a game mode to disable the other game style just in case people want to go questing instead of playing the new game style, because the end result of the team loosing the game style will mean game over, putting everyone on a remote island you cannot escape and effectively ending the game, allowing people to save if they wish.

On another, way different note, I'd like to mention the tinkering of items. I'll be trying to implement a few more items for 7.10, although I'm not sure where they'll be placed, where they can be worn, etc. All will be revealed upon release.

The way that the current items will be balanced will be to wait exactly 4 versions before a code reset, then I'll start playing solely with the items to balance them and make them all special in unique ways. Currently, some items are just simply better versions of others, such as the Robe of the Magi just being a far, far more powerful Mantle of Essence. My plans for solving this will be to add small special effects to these items, such as having the Mantle of Essence decrease the essence of all nearby enemies by 5 or something. I'm not sure if these things will be balanced and truly don't care, as that will happen after everything is said and done.


Again, items will be tinkered with 4 versions before a code reset. Nothing less, nothing more.

To wrap this up, I'll make one last notice. The way that all games will be presented until I get out of school will be that I will create them without testing (because I don't have the time), release the unstable version, get feedback on bugs and errors in the map, then release a stable version the next day or so. A more advanced scoreboard will probably be buggy since I've never made a multiboard in JASS before. This will be presented to the community in a probably buggy version and will be fixed after everything has been reported.

In this case, 7.10 will most likely be extremely buggy, so expect it. You are my testers... and you do it willingly.


Hopefully this State of the Game Address was fulfilling to many of your questions about the way the game is going and questions about how I'll be doing things for the next versions.
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game Address (05/29/2008)   Thu May 29, 2008 7:04 pm

What happens when you try to balance the early game without touching the late game, is that new people see completely imbalanced and skewed versions of the game. This actually makes new players less willling to play...Ironic isn't it? I say stay in version 7 untill all the M-spells, and the new item system is in play. The only reason we are so fast in versions is because you release versions uber fast, we test and then you fix.

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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game Address (05/29/2008)   Thu May 29, 2008 7:05 pm

Thank you, i think this clear up alot of thing for us, about where it will go, and perhaps more importantly, how we get there. im thnking of strating to play -anns more, so we can get more new players, and hopefully get US West's clan created.
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game Address (05/29/2008)   Thu May 29, 2008 7:34 pm

Ya know, the main reason I can think of that people are not helping with the M-spell books is because we have no idea how to balance them around the new spells. I know you don't want to give details but could you maybe say what type of skill it will be? a big aoe, a target nuke, a support, a hold? something so we have an idea what to suggest so the books aren't completely imba or crap when they come out with their spells?
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game Address (05/29/2008)   Thu May 29, 2008 7:47 pm

I think you were a little extreme on just picking a number and locking into it. Some of the things still require discussion IMO.

Also, the late game is the fun part. If that is ruined, I will probably be too bored to play often. So, feel free to nerf weak spells, and buff strong spells... Just don't expect the other dedicated players to stick with the map during this time. (It isn't like I would leave, I would just play alot less often as it got more unbalanced.)

I have more to say, but I will leave it to edits after I have re-read your book a few times.
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game Address (05/29/2008)   Thu May 29, 2008 9:40 pm

I voted move to version 8, but that's because I don't have a code in 7 (computer), and would prefer everyone to be a lower level when I do start Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game Address (05/29/2008)   Thu May 29, 2008 10:03 pm

Been playing some -anns, its pretty fun Smile. I kind of like it just as much as the save/load...ummm could you make farmers gold more in that....? Also lower elemental gear even more JUST for that mode?

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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game Address (05/29/2008)   Thu May 29, 2008 10:29 pm

Personally, I love -anns. It is almost like playing DotA and yet better in some ways. With more elements, I bet it'd become super awesome. Either way, more features and special items will be done for that mode.
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game Address (05/29/2008)   Fri May 30, 2008 5:44 am

Only a third of every anns game ever gets off the ground. There's always restarts due to a singular person leaving. Balancing the early game does not balance the end game. The end game shows us the end result of an elemental build making it the most stable because it is restricted in it's choices at that point. Some of the M-E books are done horribly and maybe I should get on them. I'm not sure what you were thinking putting double elemental requirements on books to use. Because of this I can't even tell what spells are in the book. And I certainly can't just blindly trust the tooltips to be correct; they often are not. It's not like "OMG I'm gonna rape you with a book completely full of spells I cannot even use", or the "I'm going to use this book that has only half of the spells of my single elemental book to own".
Edit: you need to make The percentages of the polls round, so they equal 100%, instead of only counting full %'s
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game Address (05/29/2008)   Fri May 30, 2008 10:26 am

Tooltips on the M-books are generaly correct. If not, actualy help out and point them out instead of just saying there are mistakes in one of the 28books....

I do agree though, a single leaver screws up an -anns game, and becaues it's not like DotA where expereince is shared - you can't even out level them.

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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game Address (05/29/2008)   Fri May 30, 2008 11:12 am

dude...i know how school is, too....i have so much make-up bear that i have to complete, and it's the end of the year, so all the teachers are zerging us with work Sad gl mate....

@M-books
no matter what, if you have one spell more powerful than others, people are going to focus builds around them. MG - best tank spell. We see that in Earth and Light combo. Orbs are a key to Ice and Fire - they're a reason to play them, to shoot out gg orbs. it's inevitable that people will roll mages based on what's imba in the current version.

@early game balance
if you really wanted people to send replays and experience fair play, why not set a default -anns? if there's going to be a code reset (please no), then there would be no point in saving.

@beta
there's no need to rush into beta. my logic is that you should create everything you want/plan to implement, balancing a little as required, but use beta more as fine-tuning everything. i don't expect beta until at least halfway through summer.

@items
it's a good idea to make each item unique. i was particularly intrigued by the cloak of immo. not because it was original, but because it was DIFFERENT than all the other gear. i saw a lul tactic with it. immo+sanc. it was hilarious.

@state of the game address
communication between testers and maker is good Smile good luck in school!
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game Address (05/29/2008)   Fri May 30, 2008 7:07 pm

I would point out any discrepancies in the multi-element books and give my opinions on balancing them, but I can't even LOOK inside the book. I'm sure we all know how often tooltips are incorrect, look at arcane missile it still says 8 second CD instead of 18.
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