change list

this is a reference sheet for changes that need to be done to mm&m. this is not for discussing changes, although mods have that privelege, and mods can also edit this post in the MODS section, and depending on it, it may be added. feel free to do the discussion in the other topic by posting something to add or quoting the part of this post that needs to be revised and posting in the other topic, or make your own topic in MM&M chat, or maybe in 'balance'... idk.

the 'please discuss' notice will be stationed next to things that need to be discussed majorly before i touch anything.

if absolutely necessary, people that aren't mods may post here, although it will probably be deleted... so please advise.

Spoiler:

~~ Future Changes ~~

===Random General Things===
-right now im not sure which version is going to be the 'base' version, like if 7.14 is going to be it then it will have additional bugs and an item system, but if the would-be 8.00 is, then it will have next to no bugs but no item system... so some changes may or may not need to happen.

===New Features===
-a noob guide, to help the game spread.

===Multi-Elements===

-M-Books-
-make them cheaper. this is a personal thing, i think something like buying both elemental books and paying a fee to 'combine' them for a total cost of 100-120g would be more reasonable.

-M-Spells-

===Terrain===

===Coding===
-idk, but i guess im off to learn vJass.

===Game Modes===
-ct mode... do we need it? should it be fixed and added? sorta minor, but please discuss it.
-any other bonus modes or changes to exp rate?

===Spells===

-Magic-
-rename the push spell to "Force Push," it was supposed to be force push but sin refused to go along with the popular vote D:

-Dark-
-look into a wierd occurance where, after a heretic has raised dead, causes skeletons to randomly spawn by the paladin, the triggering player, and some other war areas...

-Earth-
-test to see if anything still insta-kills the mage channeling armageddon
-fix the tooltip of armageddon saying "and so you take x1 damage since you are at its center!" to be "x1.25," if you want it to be something else, post about it.
-make it so that whenever armageddon goes off, everyone can see it... basically, generate a 1 unit LOS timed life dummy at the point of armageddon whenever it blows up. this will prevent the random mages dying in a mass of red numbers and confusion.
-speed up erupt so its as fast as its old self, doing about 1 fissure every .6-.8 seconds instead of every 1.5 seconds (will go and look at the old one)
-speed up granite grenade if needed, possibly a 15-20% speed increase.

-Fire-
-reduce stun of the 1st firebolt shot off infront of the fireorb by a random -.00 to -1, or something of the sort, so if you're lucky and have quick clicking you can escape, (although it will be something as lucky as fissure-hitting with a mountain giant).

-Holy-
-change heal to a rejuvination spell so that it isn't completely useless. total health healed will be proportionate to the old heal but will be reduced moderately because it wont need to be channeled. up for discussion.
-add a bonus 1 hp regen to bless; currently it doesnt do much for heroes (not counting mg) and the 1 regen may help out low level mages. this is just a little easter egg bonus.

-Ice-
-fix ice slide, because currently it goes farther than wind walk + crack + winged steps distance covered, in 2 seconds flat.

-Lightning-
-buff thunderbolt by lowering mana cost and 'increasing damage' by shrinking the 'cone of fire', or replacing it entirely.
-alter lightning strike in some way (in effect also changing thunderstorm). discuss please.
-thunderstorm will most likely become a thing that shoots off low-powered lightning strikes at intervals, but is subject to change.

-Water-
-random balancing of some numbers

-Wind-
-make windwalk give the user back mana and reset the cd if the point targetted is un-walkable.

===Units===
-add a little warning under merc tooltips to NOT BUY THEM if you're a lowbie.

===Neutrals===

===Quests===
-fix spelling of the grunt quest

===Items===
-for now, bring back the old item system. if possible, make a tiered system... open for the community to discuss.

===Other/Optional===

===Bugs===

MOD's CHANGES





remember, this whole list is subject to change.

kuro wrote:

~~ Future Changes ~~

===Random General Things===
-right now im not sure which version is going to be the 'base' version, like if 7.14 is going to be it then it will have additional bugs and an item system, but if the would-be 8.00 is, then it will have next to no bugs but no item system... so some changes may or may not need to happen.

I think it should be 8.0 for the final version. Just kinda looks better than 7.14c IMO.

kuro wrote:

===New Features===
-a noob guide, to help the game spread.

Not a bit deal, but sure if you feel like adding one of the noob guides that someone has made. That is something that I'm pretty sure you CAN do as it doesn't use any code. Just put it in quests.

kuro wrote:

===Multi-Elements===

-M-Books-
-make them cheaper. this is a personal thing, i think something like buying both elemental books and paying a fee to 'combine' them for a total cost of 100-120g would be more reasonable.

That method doesn't sound cheaper to me. If you want to reduce the prices, I don't think that's a big deal. Just keep them between 50-100 gold for the M-book I think.

kuro wrote:

===Coding===
-idk, but i guess im off to learn vJass.

Good luck, you'll need it. Talk to us again in 6 months when you have a basic grasp on timer structs.

kuro wrote:

===Game Modes===
-ct mode... do we need it? should it be fixed and added? sorta minor, but please discuss it.
-any other bonus modes or changes to exp rate?

I don't think fixing -ct mode is possible at this point. Even Pythagoras had trouble getting it working. Just add a command so that when someone types -ct it tells them to put people in every other slot if they are close to the same levels. Basically explain how we do it in the simplest way possible.

kuro wrote:

-rename the push spell to "Force Push," it was supposed to be force push but sin refused to go along with the popular vote D:

Yeah, sounds fine.

kuro wrote:

-Earth-
-test to see if anything still insta-kills the mage channeling armageddon
-fix the tooltip of armageddon saying "and so you take x1 damage since you are at its center!" to be "x1.25," if you want it to be something else, post about it.
-make it so that whenever armageddon goes off, everyone can see it... basically, generate a 1 unit LOS timed life dummy at the point of armageddon whenever it blows up. this will prevent the random mages dying in a mass of red numbers and confusion.
-speed up erupt so its as fast as its old self, doing about 1 fissure every .6-.8 seconds instead of every 1.5 seconds (will go and look at the old one)
-speed up granite grenade if needed, possibly a 15-20% speed increase.

-Invulnerability is SUPPOSED TO kill any mage channeling Armageddon. It's part of the game, and I like that feature.
-There has also been extensive talking about Earth balancing, I'll give my opinions.
-That seems ok to me, but I think there is a better way to do it. (Not that I know how. Go talk to diaster about that or something.)
-/agree with Erupt speed up. Pythagoras meant to do this, but something got messed up.
-Granite Grenade is one of the highest potential damage spells in the game for under 200 mana. Don't you think it should be dodgeable? At most, I would say 10-15% speed up. Anything beyond that makes it a godlike sniping skill and really imba.

kuro wrote:

-Fire-
-reduce stun of the 1st firebolt shot off infront of the fireorb by a random -.00 to -1, or something of the sort, so if you're lucky and have quick clicking you can escape, (although it will be something as lucky as fissure-hitting with a mountain giant).

You want to make Fire MORE luck based? Seriously, learn to dodge uber slow moving firebolts. Fire is not that big of deal since you can dodge everything they do. And, if you build your mage right, you can withstand their combos anyway. A Fire mage usually only does ~1500 damage. You should have at least 1600-1800 hp on all mages you build. Dying to a Fire mage is your fault on two different counts. Leave Fire alone. (And all of this is coming from someone who has never made a Fire mage.)

kuro wrote:

-Holy-
-change heal to a rejuvination spell so that it isn't completely useless. total health healed will be proportionate to the old heal but will be reduced moderately because it wont need to be channeled. up for discussion.
-add a bonus 1 hp regen to bless; currently it doesnt do much for heroes (not counting mg) and the 1 regen may help out low level mages. this is just a little easter egg bonus.

-The Heal change sounds ok to me, just don't nerf it too much since multiple other spells use Heal in their math.
-That is also good, but I would go for 3hp and 1mp regeneration myself.

kuro wrote:

-Ice-
-fix ice slide, because currently it goes farther than wind walk + crack + winged steps distance covered, in 2 seconds flat.

Ice Slide should scale less. Give it more static bonus and less scaled bonus so that it actually helps mages under level 30 but isn't uber for people over 50. The bonus damage you take while slide should also be changed so that it is ONLY while sliding and not for like 5 seconds afterwords.

kuro wrote:

-Lightning-
-buff thunderbolt by lowering mana cost and 'increasing damage' by shrinking the 'cone of fire', or replacing it entirely.
-alter lightning strike in some way (in effect also changing thunderstorm). discuss please.
-thunderstorm will most likely become a thing that shoots off low-powered lightning strikes at intervals, but is subject to change.

-Sure, reduce the mana cost. It could also be changed to shoot 4-5 instead of 3. I do think this spell can be reasonably weak though, because it is Lightning's only good AOE spell. Make it mana efficient but weak to compensate for the fact that Lightning is good at single target.
-I think Lightning Strike should target the ground giving you a chance to snipe people without actually targeting them. That is how it should have been from the beginning. In addition, it should have a significant range increase and a mana cost decrease. (about 30)
-I think it's fine and should be left alone balance-wise. It would also be great if it could get the animation from Lightning Strike, as that would actually show people what was happening so they understood the spell.

kuro wrote:

-Water-
-random balancing of some numbers

Yeah, Water needs quite a few buffs. Preferably the full remake we talked about could be done, but I just don't see that happening.

kuro wrote:

-Wind-
-make windwalk give the user back mana and reset the cd if the point targetted is un-walkable.

I agree, but your gonna have to get better at coding before you can do that.

kuro wrote:

===Units===
-add a little warning under merc tooltips to NOT BUY THEM if you're a lowbie.

Semi-agree. It should say something like "Saving money for a spellbook is more important than buying mercs for low level players."

kuro wrote:

===Items===
-for now, bring back the old item system. if possible, make a tiered system... open for the community to discuss.

Yeah, I don't think there is anything to discuss. If the new item system could be finished, cool. If not, just use the old one. It worked ok.



Go learn vJass and get back to us. Until then there isn't much you can do.

I'm going to assume I can post here

Quote :

test to see if anything still insta-kills the mage channeling armageddon

Cyclone will. It's because you go invulnerable. You either have to take that condition off or just trigger it so cyclone won't do it. The reason invunerability will kill you was because it as thought to be "cheap" to use Earthen skin at the last few seconds to prevent damage to you. Discussing this took longer than 8 pages, and no conclusion was come to. If you're the map maker, do what you feel is necessary.

Quote :

-speed up erupt so its as fast as its old self, doing about 1 fissure every .6-.8 seconds instead of every 1.5 seconds (will go and look at the old one)

Lol @ your math/estimations. It's already faster than that. The old one finished in 2-3 seconds, which means it should be 0.2-0.3 fissures/second, considering there are 10-13 fissures.

Quote :

reduce stun of the 1st firebolt shot off infront of the fireorb by a random -.00 to -1, or something of the sort, so if you're lucky and have quick clicking you can escape, (although it will be something as lucky as fissure-hitting with a mountain giant).

No it's already easy to dodge. It's supposed to be a hit or miss spell.

Quote :

-change heal to a rejuvination spell so that it isn't completely useless. total health healed will be proportionate to the old heal but will be reduced moderately because it wont need to be channeled. up for discussion.

Sounds good.

Quote :

ct mode... do we need it? should it be fixed and added? sorta minor, but please discuss it.

No we don't. The only time you ever need -ct is when teams are ell even anyway - like an al 62 or an all new game. You can already manipulate the system. The only reason it would be added is for "professional" ones. If the map won't completely be finished, and is just being polished, no point for that.

Quote :

-random balancing of some numbers

Not Random please >.>....Try to make the simple changes discussed in the water thread.

lol kuro you learn JASS i will personally come to your house and give you a dollar

Bumping this for Rhys. It's a useful topic for you to read if you want to understand how we feel about the necessary features in the next version.