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Siddha
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PostSubject: List of suggestions   Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:48 pm

Just a few suggestions that I thought I would share with yall, some are from Mega_Zero, some are from me.

Just one note before you read this, some of these may sound bogus, they are just ideas, lemme know what u think, and i know some might come out to be unreasonable, hope this helps advance the game! (which BTW I love zync)

Current Content

-Its a bit too easy, i mean, 4 or so lvl 75+s can beat it easily if u have a talk and people just use stuf like divine shot and missle shot for DPS
-Divine shot is way to OP, IMO bring it down by 35-45% of its effectiveness
-Make it slower to level in my opinion, I was looking through my MM&M codes for my original ICE/Earth mage, i had at least 30, prolly 25 of them were before lvl 99, lvl 99 was something to be PROUD of in MM&M, it showed ALOT of hard work, and it was an aweasome sight to see alot of them working together, now 99 is cool, but i got to it way too fast for me to be like YES! when i got it
-U can share control buy items, i did it myself, but fix it please
-The shots are too random IMO, I think an interesting thing to do would be to make 2 shot shops, 1 lvl 1-98 shot shop, and one lvl 99 shot shop, so that there would be a linear progression of sorts for lvling shots, and then high ammounts of diversity at 99
-Hawk set needs a small buff, just cause u almost get the same ammount of power with royal and u get much more mana and hp with royal

New things, these are some things that I think should be added

-A way to skip lvls, playing through the first 5-15 lvls as a lvl 70 or 80+ is kinda boring, maybe like, if everyone in the game is about a certain level, you have an option to skip to a certain level
-Make more levels, but not in the way you think, make this map the MAIN map, like leveling and such, basic gear, But make more maps like RAGOS ORPG did with several maps using the same save load code system and allowing for multiple different themed maps with diverse boss battles, so you could make more interesting encounters, like defending bridges, taking keeps, search and rescue missions, stuff like that, with maybe some more sets from the bosses
-Boss drops, plain and simple, some set, some not, stuff like that
-More 99 content, but that could be achieved with the more maps idea like RAGOS
-This just popped into my head, having it so that at lvl 99, there are about 5-10 different quests that you could choose from, each of which gave a seperate unique skill or buff that you would get to keep for your 99. Some way to get some form of enchantment for your character is the basic idea of it (or spell) Maybe like getting a specialization at lvl 99? like rifleman, marksman, machine gunner, demolitions expert, generic sub-classes like that
-More unique boss encounters, instead of having a wave of a few stronger people, make it so that they have skills, and different means of having to beat them (IE, summons adds at a certain point, Uses a healing spell that you have to forsaken hot off of him/her, random AOEs spawn, something like that


Anyways I hope these are some feasible ideas, I'm SURE ill be posting more, cause they are ALWAYS coming into my head, some shit, some good. Leme know what u think. and some other suggestions being suggested here wouldn't be a bad idea.

Thanks for the nifty map,
-Siddha
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Zync
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PostSubject: Re: List of suggestions   Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:03 pm

- I am nerfing Divine Shot.
- Levels are faster than I intend for later versions, because I want people to get to those high levels so that I can see how the game plays at those levels.
- I am going to start preventing unit sharing in the next version.
- I don't think I'm going to buff Hawk Set, however, I am applying a small nerf to Royal Set.

- I haven't planned to allow the skipping of levels, because not only would that greatly reduce the amount gold rewarded in a game, but screw any newbies that had joined.
- While I am implementing new game modes ( you'll see in next version ), I won't ever split the map. To complex to do.
- I never do "drops". I give the players the control as to the items they spend their time earning.
- Quests are unlikely. However, "Goals" or "Missions" where an objective such as "keep all NPC heroes alive for 30 rounds" are being speculated on at the moment.
- The complexity of AI control is still under development. Not sure where it is headed in all honesty.

Hopefully this satisfies you.
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Siddha
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PostSubject: Re: List of suggestions   Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:28 pm

It does in a way, I agree with the keeping lvling fast for the moment and having a small nerf on royal set, gj with the prevent unit sharing, and the nerf on divine shot had it coming

However, I think u missed the idea of skipping lvls, I mean, IE, if the players were
Siddha:64
Mega:53
Sinister: 67

you could skip to a lvl adequate for lvl 50s, like round 15 - 25 or something i dont remember

however if JJ was there with a lvl 20, we could only skip to a lvl 20 area, which would prolly just be starting lvl


Um, and the new game modes is good, but I still think there should be like a seperate maps,i think it kept it very interesting and when u made it that people knew WHAT U WERE DOING then and there, and only did that map for that, i mean with diffent modes, and poeple being like, oh hey ill join, its like dota with some people joingin a game and the host saying, -sd, and 5 people leaving. However with ur idea im sure it would be simpler.

-Bridge defenses
-Storming locations
-NPC escourts
all stuf like that sounds fun

Drops, in my opinion, can be annoying, but maybe u could d something with where, when u kill high lvl bosses u get some WOOD, or like ONE wood, and some ofthe lvl 99 gear cost like 5 wood. so that there were some variations on the currency of getting items, so u couldn't like, run lvl 1s to lvl 50, like 20 times, just to help friends, then be like, OH WAIT! I have my lvl 99 gear and I didnt have to do ANYTHING HARD!!!

Just a thought


I like the idea of goals and missions, those are nice, quests are too generic, however I mean something like not a quest, but more like a mission like u said (which i believe a difference, which could like, be in a different map (or a separate mode like u were planning) where u had to kill a certain large amount of hard bosses that could give a nice interesting buff, item, or skill at the end.



Some other things

-Arena would be nice (and having arena gear too) but i guess u already were planning something like that
-I liked the PvP system of RAGOS ORPG, that was great, something like that would be cool too
-And I dont see what ur problem with drops is, i understand the logic backed behind wanting there to be common currencies so there is a quicker and easier choice for people and so they dont get frustrated with the game, but having like there be a weapon boss with unique types of weapons, u can live in the game without the new weapons but they would be, unique?
-More weapons would be nice, but not just more, more unique, and u didnt comment on my idea of sub classing at lvl 99.


Thank you for replying so speedily Zync, it really shows ur dedication
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SinisteRing
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PostSubject: Re: List of suggestions   Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:35 pm

I don't think there should ever be more than one Metal & Magic map, first and foremost. The complexity of doing such a thing is far more complex than it sounds. Ragos had much, much time put into it and has only 10 levels with a simple item system. That's not hard to save/load. Doing it on a scale that Metal & Magic is on would be painstaking and... quite frankly... useless. The maintainability between all of them would also suck like hell. I wouldn't do it if I were Zync, from a mapper's stand point.

The drops from bosses idea does have merit, as getting past a boss level during the early stages is like "w/e" and you get nothing from it. Possible drops sounds fantastic, right? People would fight over the items like mad, leading to flaming in-game, etc.

More organization of the shots and how they scale could actually be pretty useful. Having a 1-98 shop and level 99 shop seems fine, but I'm sure Zync has a better idea than that.

I support the skipping of levels if all players loaded a code above X levels. Perhaps if they were all above 10, you could skip the first 2 levels. Then above 20 they'd skip the first 4... something incremental like that to make the system easier to maintain and smaller to write, taking up less space.

AI can get quite complex. I don't think it's Zync's specialty, as it is with some other mappers... however, if he's able to do it, I strongly support bosses having used abilities, as it'd increase the overall "professional" appearance of the game by a lot.
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Siddha
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PostSubject: Re: List of suggestions   Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:39 pm

Well see this is the kinda stuf i need to be told, im not a coder yet so i dont know how hard things are too do which is why i said that some things might be completely unreasonable
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Zync
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PostSubject: Re: List of suggestions   Sun Feb 01, 2009 8:50 pm

I'm far away from doing anything like changing the whole style of play ( to a PvP arena or whatnot ). However modes -ff and -hc will be included in in the next release.

I will never do multiple maps or drops that give any kind of savable items. ( Some kind powerful potion for later round usage ... maybe. ) But stuff using Skill Points to purchase is impossible based on the established game conditions.

This is not an MMO, so stop comparing it to WoW ( i.e. reference to Arena Gear ... ). Yes Sets are based off of your "armor" slots, but the semantics are far different. In addition, I'm trying to make it such that there is one single great Set. I want there to be multiple Set options based on how you want to play the game.

The stuff mentioned:
Quote :
-Bridge defenses
-Storming locations
-NPC escourts
will probably never happen.

My responses are going to get smaller as things I have addressed resurface.
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Psiblade94122
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PostSubject: Re: List of suggestions   Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:22 am

Level skipping is a bad idea in general
If you skip any level, your loosing out on points that accumulate for your gold income at the end of every round.

Yes getting 20g in round 1 is useless in the eyes of a level 70 waiting to get their hands on the royal armor, but that not only adds up per round, but each addition gets bigger and bigger. If you where to skip to a high level, all those commutative points of dealing, taking, healing damage and killing things would have gone to waste, thus making the intentional gold farm take much longer then it should. It also makes later rounds feel much more rewarding because the pot of gold that you get at the end is much higher, whats better, surviving the fights with the big dragons and gaining 200 gold, or the same scenario but you get 500 gold instead?
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Zync
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PostSubject: Re: List of suggestions   Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:09 pm

Ok, well, I realized that this "skipping" idea is really easy to implement with my system. So the question becomes how?

I'm assuming you want to be able to type "-skip #" and skip to that round of spawns. Or, I could simply implement a "-skip" command that calculates a viable creep round to skip too automatically.

Either way, I'm going to have to limit it, such that if anyone gets a -new Metacian ( within the first 30 seconds of the game, afkers get kicked out ) than the skip get overridden, probably resetting the first spawn back to normal beginning.

Is this something you guys can go for? And which one would you prefer "-skip #" or an automatic calculation.
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Dragonheart91
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PostSubject: Re: List of suggestions   Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:26 pm

I think that it should automatically skip you to a level that should be the correct difficulty for the lowest level player in the game. So, if there is a single new person, it starts at level one. If there is a single level 20 person but none below that, it might skip to levle 8-12 ish. Whatever you feel is the correct difficulty for the lowest level player.


Also, because it seems that money is calculated by the total damage/healed/taken/kills of the ENTIRE game, I think it should compensate for the skipped levels by giving everyone a default amount of income increase equivalent to what the team would have gained by playing those previous levels on average but split between all players.
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Zync
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PostSubject: Re: List of suggestions   Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:59 pm

No gold compensation would occur.

One sould skip levels only when they want to beat the game or get to harder levels faster.

It would not be a mining tactic. Otherwise, 2 high level Metacians could make a game and just start eating gold without any effort. That's not right.
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Dragonheart91
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PostSubject: Re: List of suggestions   Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:02 pm

Then it definitely shouldn't be automatic. People could get screwed out of alot of money if they didn't have a lowbie on their team. In fact, without the compensation, I don't see any reason for this at all.
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Zync
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PostSubject: Re: List of suggestions   Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:13 pm

Dragonheart91 wrote:
Then it definitely shouldn't be automatic. People could get screwed out of alot of money if they didn't have a lowbie on their team. In fact, without the compensation, I don't see any reason for this at all.
Did you read my post?! The setting of the round would ONLY occur when host types "-skip" ( or something to that effect ) during the first 30 seconds of the game ( as he must do with -ff or -hc ).

Why would I enforce it?! It's an option...
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Dragonheart91
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PostSubject: Re: List of suggestions   Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:26 pm

I suggested in my above post that it should be automatic.
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Scyon
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PostSubject: Re: List of suggestions   Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:15 am

The skip level idea is a decent suggestion, since im lvl 99, i don't mind skipping all the way to orcs or dragons, but then in a public game the noobs will miss out on the real action for them...

This then makes it the host's responsibility to no screw over the noobs and be fair to them by letting them kill the low levels waves and then eventually lose at the dragons or orcs.

Of course if you are playing with a pro team, then its the host responsibility to pick an appropriate level.

The game should also have a timer, counting down when each level is going to start and what level we are on currently (or going to next), cos I can't even keep count of what level I am on.

As for the gold compensation, it does and doesn't make sense. Think of it this way, it takes roughly 5-10 hours to make 100k gold by farming. Imagine if you can skip levels to Dragons or orcs and kill them, and get compensated for roughly how much you would have made in previous rounds. This would make farming for gold 10x easier.

So the issue is time vs money, should be player just sit there and kill each wave and get the money and then try hard once they reach dragons and orcs. Or should the player just skip to dragons and orcs and forget about the money (in this case Zero compensation).

If you were to do compensation, I would calculate it based on a formula who deals/kills/takes the most damage of the skipped level.
For example a player who is 99 and a player who is 59 play together, it is very likely that the 99 player will have more kills. So they decide to skip to dragons, and they kill the dragons, the 99 ends up killing 2x times more than the 59 does and therefore the compensation for all the other rounds should be scaled to that effect, two to one ratio. So on the first round the 99 guys would get roughly 30 gold while the the 59 should get 15 gold, and then apply the same formula for each rounds skipped and therefore the big lump sum compensation should be given accordingly.

Overall the compensation issue is only an issue if you need money...if you don't need money, who cares...
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Dragonheart91
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PostSubject: Re: List of suggestions   Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:17 am

You don't get gold for the missed levels, you get score compensation for the SCORE you would have gained in those lower levels so that you get the normal amount of money for the level you are on.
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BashAndSmash
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PostSubject: Re: List of suggestions   Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:31 pm

No compensation should be given. It should be a time issue, not a gold one. The diffuculty of levels should fluctuate, because of this there should be a maximum level you can skip to even if everyone is 99.
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Scyon
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PostSubject: Re: List of suggestions   Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:03 pm

I agree with Dragonheart, that's what I was trying to say, hehe, but regardless, Zync will not give gold compensation, which make sense too, so im ok with that, since im already rich and I know i can make money no problems.
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RapidFireOmega
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PostSubject: Re: List of suggestions   Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:37 pm

Suggestions by random people who I was playing with:

cheap sets for new characters

less life on infernals

more on the way....
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