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Which spell should be remade first?
Raise Dead
21%
 21% [ 17 ]
Interrupt
11%
 11% [ 9 ]
Burn
11%
 11% [ 9 ]
Pacifism
10%
 10% [ 8 ]
Thunderbolt
17%
 17% [ 14 ]
Purge
4%
 4% [ 3 ]
Silence
4%
 4% [ 3 ]
Way of the wind
9%
 9% [ 7 ]
Truesight
6%
 6% [ 5 ]
Flame Strike
7%
 7% [ 6 ]
Total Votes : 81
 

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Jay.J
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PostSubject: Remaking skills   Sun May 25, 2008 2:23 pm

It's a fact that some spells are just useless, too situational to ever be used, and when they are used just aren't even that effective in the first place. These moves should be remade in my opinion, one of the skills that have been remade since SinisteRing was frost armour, in to the fun skill of slide Smile. I would like to see more of these skills remade...but first which skill should be remade (first, I'm sure SinisteRing will remake a few if not all of them).

Some of these spells can be remade to have secondary effects as well as it's current effects, or maybe just redo the type of spell from a channeling to a debuff, or something similar, or they can be completely removed and remade into a new spell.

The skills I've listed may be good, but I find are underused - they may be completely useful, so just don't vote for it...Also, it would be good if you had suggestion for a new spell, but it isn't required.

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Last edited by Jay.J on Tue May 27, 2008 7:00 pm; edited 2 times in total
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SinisteRing
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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Sun May 25, 2008 3:59 pm

Stickied.
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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Sun May 25, 2008 4:11 pm

I think burn should be to the extent were its easily tellable someones casting it on you.
Right nows it just a tiny red thing... O_O
Also, can you add tooltips for some spells?
So you cant tell if someones being restored, burned, and etc.

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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Sun May 25, 2008 4:12 pm

Great suggestion, DBC. I will put it on my to-do list for the future.
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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Sun May 25, 2008 4:16 pm

I think burn should completely be removed in general. Doesn't fit into any combo of fire, and doesn't have usage elsewhere, maybe if you're out of mana, and all the enemy mages are dead you might use it on the NPC heroes so troops do more damage - but it's so bleh.

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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Sun May 25, 2008 4:18 pm

I like burn though.
If my three combo attack (Firebolt, fire orb, than fireball).
Doesnt work, And they begin running. I just cast burn.
And theres no escape. o_O

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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Sun May 25, 2008 4:34 pm

Or while they are stunned from bolt/orb, you can run up and use nova....and if they're still alive somehow...just run with them untill a spell coolsdown...

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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Sun May 25, 2008 4:35 pm

They're un-stunned after I use fireball :p

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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Sun May 25, 2008 4:46 pm

Sooo, use Nova before fireball since it's a ranged spell...regardless we are a bit off topic.

I think pacifism should be remade, as when used on troops they just keep running forward to the check point, and can sometimes backfire by making them come closer to you... It's just not too useful. The best use is using it on the NPC heroes when you're at their base as it cuts their damage down a bit, but it makes it so you can't surround them...

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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Sun May 25, 2008 7:11 pm

I absolutely love Burn. I have a combo for the Pally and other npcs (3 Firewalls then Burn nearly kills an npc). I do use it on other players, rarely though. Mainly because it is so easy to get away from and I am a sitting duck for anyone else or mobs around me.

EDIT: Also Burn is easily noticed that you are being hit by it... I suddenly see red numbers above my head.


Last edited by Speakere on Sun May 25, 2008 8:03 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Sun May 25, 2008 7:13 pm

Why don't you use 3 firewalls, and then flame strike...You already have NPC killing moves, and better ones at that Neutral.

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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Sun May 25, 2008 7:16 pm

Flame Strike is too easily noticed and it has a fairly low area so it becomes worthless if they kill all the mobs and start coming for me.
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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Sun May 25, 2008 7:23 pm

....I don't understand the logic. If he can move then your firewalls aren't damaging him. You should have troops attacking him, or you lose half the effect of burn (the negative armour). Granted it is easily noticeable, but it can easily hit the paladin and the knight at the same time as well as all the creeps around him (and kill them) - so your troops will be taking the hits and surround him and not you. Although it is noticeable it does much more damage, and the damage is faster so it won't just get healed off. In your scenario, if there are no troops, then its the same thing with burn - unless you meant the enemy mages, in which case it doesn't matter much because you should have more troops as flame strike will kill all theirs. It's good mana:damage ratio, but the time it takes to use isn't that great, and it's usually better to cast everything you got before hand and have faster burst daamge against NPC heroes before they heal, or your troops die.

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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Sun May 25, 2008 7:29 pm

What I meant was that I start with several troops and then send the Firewalls and Burn. By the time he kills the troops all of the firewalls are gone and he is nearly dead running at me. With Flame Strike, he will only take 1 maybe 2 hits more. While with, burn he will take several more hits as he moves toward me. By the time he gets to me I will have killed or weakened him enough that I can just Fire Nova to finish him.
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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Sun May 25, 2008 7:37 pm

Ummm no. You kill their troops as well with flame strike, so your troops take less damage, and your troops focus on him as more as well. You can also hit all 3 NPC's (unlikely) but hitting the pally and the knight at the same time is not uncommon. The damage is also much faster, and he can't heal in that time - so you can Nova and kill him faster, and ensure your kill.

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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Sun May 25, 2008 7:47 pm

Flame Strike costs over twice as much and only 1x power more damage for less time. Also the Firewalls affect the troops further away from the Pally so he heals them before he heals himself (I have noticed this he will heal others before he heals himself.). Also with Burn's "stealthiness" (very small effects) I am not instantly targeted by the other teams stunners. Add to the fact nearly every game I play lately has a Light mage for each team so when we start fighting the Pally they start healing/blessing the the troops so I do not usually need to worry about the troops dieing or killing the enemies troops.


Last edited by Speakere on Sun May 25, 2008 8:12 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Sun May 25, 2008 7:54 pm

Changed the poll to "spell" instead of skill. Get your english right, Jay.J.
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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Sun May 25, 2008 8:10 pm

Decent points put up Speakre, I guess it would be preference then. However I still think it is worthy of a remake as a debuff with less damage.

Pshh...It is a skill, as spells are skills Razz. You don't consider shooting a firebolt out of your hands a skill?

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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Sun May 25, 2008 8:15 pm

Another thing I like about Burn is... I get to yell "BURN! BABY BURN!" when I kill or am killing someone.
EDIT: Sorry just had to say it and the fact that its only useful on others when they are running away.
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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Sun May 25, 2008 8:25 pm

The remake of the skill (if it is remade) could still be called burn, as a different type of skill, like a take damage over time kind of thing like...If they are hit by a firebolt/nova/orb/ball then they take a certain amount of damage over time. Also stuns for 0.5 seconds or something...Random idea.

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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Sun May 25, 2008 8:59 pm

If burn was 1.8x instead of 1.5x it might be used more. The reason I use burn is for STEALTH. I sit in the fog burning some guy, it takes him a few secs to realize whats going on and by then he is dead.
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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Sun May 25, 2008 9:01 pm

1.8 damage would mean it does 21.6xpower damage....That's huge. And for like minimal mana...like 105 or something.

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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Sun May 25, 2008 10:10 pm

thats also a 12 second channel: the longest in the game except for noob ressurections (it's funny watching someone channel rez for 45 seconds and still not rez them) You can do fairly similar damage with regular attacks and a firewall for less mana.
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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Tue May 27, 2008 3:32 am

Do *NOT* I repeat *NOT* get rid of burn.

If you think it's not used enough then buff it. Add increased armour reduction or have the damage it deals increase over time. (0.5*power on the first tick, 1*power on the second tick, 1.5*power on the third, 2*power, 2.5*power, 3*power, etcetera, etcetera)

I love burn as it is.
It is one of my favourite fire skills.

For defeating enemy npc heroes, it reduces their armour allowing the soldiers to deal more damage and for less than half the mana cost of flame strike, it deals 3/4 of the damage.

It is the only directly targeted spell fire has, which is very useful in case the enemy hero is good at dodging.

It deals the first tick of damage straight away. No chance to dodge, no opportunity to miss so if the enemy hero is nearly dead and running away, then it allows you to get that last bit of damage without worrying about another enemy hero or creep getting in the way.

And as someone else already said, it has a minor stealth element to it, where a slow-witted, or unobservant player won't notice the damage being dealt.

Do not get rid of this spell.
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PostSubject: Re: Remaking skills   Tue May 27, 2008 3:39 am

I think the proposed change would be to make it so you didn't have to channel but it did much less damage. Not 100% it will become that, but wouldn't something like that be MUCH better? Come on...

Off-Topic: I think all of the channeling spells need a MUCH larger animation on the channeler and/or the target. They are currently all hard to tell when your being hit with it and/or an ally is. (Suffocation is the exception due to silencing making it rather obvious to the target.) Drain Life is especially hard, as you basically have to watch the Dark's hp to tell if they are using it.
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