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Rhys
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PostSubject: The Big Bang Theory   Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:50 pm

WARNING THIS IS EXTREMELY LONG DO NOT START READING WITHOUT TIME ON YOUR HANDS!



The universe is infinite as far as I can tell, Scientist would like to tell you that there is an end to it; that the Universe in fact has boundaries, but I disagree. Could you imagine floating in space coming to the end of it? Like some invisible wall will stop you. What exactly would nothing look like? We say that space is itself nothing but in fact it is something, in comparison to earth it is nothing because we are so used to a physical environment. I have many gripes with standard theories of today being considered and treated as if they where fact, we teach our children things that are simply not true, we teach them what we feel makes the most sense. There is a difference between the two. If we are going to talk about the greatest unknown and incidentally the keeper of the biggest question ever to be asked by a human being (Why are We here?) then I should for warn you that I myself truly know nothing and only make logical observations on what I feel to be true, the same could be said for the people who theorized and published the beliefs that we all follow to this very day. Your very foundation of knowledge is based upon how someone else views the world. You could take that and accept it or dig deeper into it for yourself. Personally Id like to start this project right where it belongs, the theory of the Big Bang...

"Hypothesis of the primeval atom" - Proposed by Georges Lemaître

Lemaître originally conceived the Big Bang, although he did not call it that, a Man in 1949 Called Fred Hoyle is credited for the name of it when he stated that the beginning of the universe started in a "Big Bang" according to Georges Lemaître's Hypothesis of the primeval atom. Lemaître took concepts from Albert Einstein(General Relativity) Christian Doppler (Doppler Effect) and Edwin Hubble (Red Shift Effect) and applied those 3 Theories into one Observational theory of the universe. This of course is that it’s Expanding. If the universe Expands as time passes then going backwards in time would make the universe collapse on itself, the farther back you went then the smaller the universe gets. Eventually if this process is in fact true then the universe would collapse on itself to such a density that it would create so much energy that it would explode. Imagine all of the universes matter, every single particle, all condensed into a single fraction of an atom.

The Red Shift Effect states that as Light moves across the galaxy it Shifts its color on the Light Spectrum, your Eyes will view that color shift differently depending on if the light is traveling towards or away from you. A Yellow light will be viewed as an Orange light if it is traveling away from you. For example if we sat in a spaceship at the out skirts of our galaxy and turned exactly opposite of our Sun and then viewed the light traveling away it would appear to be orange not the yellow that we see here on earth. How this applies to us is that other known galaxies in the universe have color shifts on them which allow us to see the direction they are traveling. Most other galaxies are traveling away from us as it so happens. Because everything is traveling away from us it makes sense that everything at one point was closer to us.

Chondrite meteorites, which are Calcium and Aluminum based and the farthest dating material known to us so far forms from gas and dust clouds. Add in around 4.6 Billion years of time and you will get a Solar System. Add in about 100 Million Years for planet Formation and then the actual known age of the earth 4.5 Billion Years and what do you get? What we know to be true is that our solar system is roughly 9.2 Billion Years old. According to Scientist the Universe is13.7 Billion years old which means our Solar system started forming when the universe was 4.5 Billion Years Old.

The universe is at least 156 Billion Light Years Wide. Which means that it should take light that long to travel across it. so if one beam of light travels from the start of the universe outwards, presently today that light would have traveled 13.7 billion light years from the point of creation outwards. If the universe is at the very least 156 billion light years wide then that means the universe is expanding faster then the speed of light. According to Einstein that is impossible because space just like earth follows rules. The only argument that the prevailing Scientific Community can offer for why there is so much matter beyond 13.7 billion light years which is the distance anything should have been able to travel so far according to the Big bang theory is that as the universe expands it carries with it its contents making everything faster with it.

The first Debunking of The Big Bang is that nothing travels faster then light. As proven by Einstein the amount of energy required to move as fast as light approaches infinite the closer you get to its speed making it literally impossible for any matter in the universe to travel beyond 13.7 light years away from the spot of creation.

The Big Bang theory is a religious enabling theory because it proposes that the universe breaks the laws of physics with no explanation of how. One entity is the sole source of Infinite Power, which is why the church accepts this theory. Look at your history books and find out how many scientific theories religion has accepted that even remotely answers a question that could lead to why we are here. The Big Bang theory is not a threat to religion and even enforces religions hold on your mind by leaving questions unanswered. Unanswered questions that we have no control over but desperately seek out for an answer lends itself to religion and church. Questions like Why.Questions like Death. The Church as an entity itself has always been a business venture. It has made more money then any company in history. It has lasted longer then any civilization in history let alone a mere business company. It has more direct followers that will follow its guidance and words then any entity or entities combined other then other religion's in the history of mankind. If Religion and Church say the Big Bang Theory is ok, then so do billions of Human Beings. Our Second Debunking of The Big Bang Theory is the injection of Religion into Science. The Big Bang theory is extremely easy to give into because it offers two things. An answer that does not directly interfere with the concept of god and in addition it gives you a question that re-enforces the concept of god. Even if the overall theory is flawed it doesn’t particularly matter because the organization that has the Human race's better interest in mind said this one is the one for you to believe in, and you did.

When we read about the accomplishments of our ancestors we feel that they had it all figured out, that they went through hardships sure but every day life was nothing like today. In the 1920's life for the common person was not too much unlike today, we have many technological inventions that wedge a giant gap between the two time periods. However they had News that spread much like we have today, communities where influenced from the growing world. The Prevailing Scientific Theory on the Creation of The Universe in the 1920's was the Cosmic Egg. A Precursor if you will to what we call the Big Bang today. You see the Big Bang theory itself is a justification for the cosmic egg theory and then put into writing. The Cosmic Egg theory is far dated back in many cultures and was revisited in the 1920's by the world scientific community. The Idea itself is nothing more then an outdated philosophy of past civilizations that has been re-polished and given a catchy name to stick in your mind. Remember that the same civilizations that originally brought the concept of religion into this world are also responsible for the theories of creationism of our universe. At One point in Humanity we all believed the Sun was The God and that God came from an Egg. Georges Lemaître took the prevailing theory on the universe of his time and polished it into good idea with a little bit of evidence to back it up. Evidence of course can be viewed many ways from many view points, what some may contend is a solution others may see as part of the question. The Third Debunking of the Big Bang Theory is the fact that it has been based off of an unfounded scientific theory of a long since dead civilization that has been wrong on many and most things involving both religion and astronomy.

The last major part of evidence backing up The Big Bang Theory is Cosmic microwave background radiation. Everywhere around us is an invisible radiation that is across the entire measurable universe, after 20 years of research and work it was discovered in 1964 by astronomers Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson. There obviously is no factual concrete evidence on why this Cosmic Radiation is everywhere we can measure with our tools. The Big Bang Theory presents a situation that enables us to believe in the Theory itself. Before 1964 The Big Bang Theory had no inclusions of this radiation however upon discovery it was required to present an answer and this is what the scientific community came up with. When the universe was young, before the formation of stars and planets, it was smaller, much hotter, and filled with a uniform glow from its red-hot fog of hydrogen plasma. As the universe expanded, both the plasma and the radiation filling it grew cooler. When the universe got cool enough, stable atoms could form. These atoms could no longer absorb the thermal radiation, and the universe became transparent instead of being an opaque fog. The photons that were around at that time have been propagating ever since, though growing fainter and less energetic, since the exact same photons fill a larger and larger universe. This is the source for the term relic radiation, another name for the cosmic microwave background radiation. Although there are many different processes that may produce the general form of a black body spectrum, no model other than the Big Bang has yet explained the fluctuations. As a result, most cosmologists consider this radiation to be the best evidence for the Big Bang model of the universe.

So the basic theory is this, The Big Bang Theory Best Describes what is happening but does not completely describe it nor does it get many things correct and in some instances it is blatantly guessing, even still because it is the most logical in comparison with other theories on the subject it is considered to be true and then taught to us, the more generations false knowledge is bred into the harder it will be to break out of that cycle. Space itself is a huge place, much larger then we could possible imagine. 156 Billion Light years will most likely not even put a dent in the trip in my opinion. No one has even considered there is Cosmic Radiation on a large scale for the simple fact that we are in a section of the universe that happens to be enveloped in a giant invisible gas cloud of radiation that spreads for hundred of millions of light years.

So what good is it to tear down a theory if we have nothing to replace it with? Personally I could care less knowing that I have no clue about what truly is going on, I do not have the requirement to make up stories and solidify my place in human history, at the same time though I don’t believe everything I’m told. The best I can tell you is this. If you view the universe in its parts you will find nothing,everything is connected in some way, everything. Have you ever looked out at the sky and wondered exactly how everything works? Everything from the very smallest things that we can not even see with our naked eye to the very largest of the large that we can not even comprehend with our naked eye, everything in this universe has a certain universal mechanic; everything has a system that it follows. Rules that keep it in equilibrium with the rest of the universe. It could be said that everything has a purpose but I do not feel that way personally as that assumes a loss of control. We where not put here in my opinion, we are a natural evolution of organics. I do not think that the universe has an end I believe it goes on infinitely, it seems that my mind would shatter into a million pieces had I the power to reach the edge of the universe even if I had a Trillion years to try to get there and view what the edge of a universe looks like. The very idea that space is limited lends itself to a joke on life that will eventually end.

So for My Debate I have picked The Bang Theory and I have attempted to disprove it. If you feel that I am wrong then please attempt to disprove me, I welcome all challengers!

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PostSubject: Re: The Big Bang Theory   Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:32 pm

Woah. Long read....Reserved post for when I get around to typing stuff....Reading it took long enough Neutral

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PostSubject: Re: The Big Bang Theory   Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:44 pm

tl;dr? Maybe later.
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PostSubject: Re: The Big Bang Theory   Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:45 pm

tl;dr version, please.

To me, the Big Fag Theory is a load of crap, and was made by fags, hence its name, Very Happy However, since I really don't want to get into trying to disprove it, as I really just don't give a crap, I'm going to just walk, (mostly), past it.

(edit) Whoa, posted at almost the same exact minute as Dragon, XD.
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PostSubject: Re: The Big Bang Theory   Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:10 pm

You realize there was a big disclaimer up at the top that said it was long, it isn't even that long for a scientific article.

1. The Red Shift Effect is misstated, if light is moving away from you, you would never be able to detect that light. If you are moving with respect to the direction of light, however, then the effect would take place. Without a reference of some sort, the shift would be entirely lost on an observer, now instead of actually knowing what frequency of light is emitted from a source, you get to put a plusorminus in front of it. - I'm just talking, I don't know the actual formula for the magnitude of the shift, and if it's second derivative isn't zero and your measuring tools are accurate enough you could, in theory, find the original frequency.

2. In order for something to be limited by the speed of light it must have mass. The universe itself expanding more rapidly than the speed of light is perfectly within the realm of physical possibility, as long as no matter or information traveled with the edge of the universe then there is no visible violation.

3. Teleportation and wormholes. lol.

Edit:
Bartimaeus wrote:
To me, the Big Fag Theory is a load of crap, and was made by fags, hence its name, Very Happy However, since I really don't want to get into trying to disprove it, as I really just don't give a crap, I'm going to just walk, (mostly), past it.
Why would you bring up the sexuality of those who theorized that a massive explosion of matter an energy created the universe?

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PostSubject: Re: The Big Bang Theory   Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:50 pm

Fag is also a word for a drudge, or the end of a cigar. A butt, to be exact, I believe.

Knowing that, it could very well mean a homosexual butt drudge, Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: The Big Bang Theory   Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:43 am

Bartimaeus wrote:
To me, the Big Fag Theory is a load of crap, and was made by fags, hence its name, Very Happy However, since I really don't want to get into trying to disprove it, as I really just don't give a crap, I'm going to just walk, (mostly), past it.
Bartimaeus wrote:
To me, the Big Cigar Theory is a load of crap, and was made by cigars, hence its name, Very Happy However, since I really don't want to get into trying to disprove it, as I really just don't give a crap, I'm going to just walk, (mostly), past it.

Well, okay.

First of all: takes less than 5 minutes to read... -.- "tl;dr" peoples. lol.

Quote :
tl;dr version, please.

To me, the Big Fag Theory is a load of crap, and was made by fags, hence its name, Very Happy However, since I really don't want to get into trying to disprove it, as I really just don't give a crap, I'm going to just walk, (mostly), past it.

(edit) Whoa, posted at almost the same exact minute as Dragon, XD.

tl;dr is part of chat speak. "xD" is part of chat speak. In your sig, where all the words "rofl zomg wtf" pop up, "xD" is in it... anyway, you also have bad grammar and an inappropriate comma... and yet you have to little flashing images that say you support bad grammar, denounce leetspeak/chatspeak, etc. Stop being a hypocrite Evil or Very Mad


My 2cents about the big bang... its all theory. Like pyth said... matter cannot go faster than light, however, since space is NOT matter (it is actually the abscence of matter) then it should be possible... however, if it isn't anything, then how is it expanding and getting bigger? Therefore, "nothing is (expanding) faster than the speed of light."

There will always be a lot that we will never know. Heck, the big bang could have even been caused by God's fart. Just so you know, there are some alternate corrections to the big bang theory. Google it Smile
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PostSubject: Re: The Big Bang Theory   Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:46 am

I wont be one of those too long didn't read people... but I really didn't read it, because it's actually too long.

I believe that the Big Bang Theory has extremely solid evidence supporting it, and therefore will be defending it as being a true theory. Why? Because there was no evidence supporting it NOT being a true theory, according to scientists... or at least that's what the head of my science department at school told me.
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PostSubject: Re: The Big Bang Theory   Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:02 am

There's a lot of "unsure" things.


So its like, there's 100 thingies.


Scientists use this theory, and say stuff, and so they prove 96 of these thingies are a possiblity of being caused by this "big bang."


People sort've ignore it...


Other people prove the four other thingies.


Scientists now tell everyone that there is "undeniable proof."


People find more thingies they are unsure of.


Most scientists, once again, ignore it. They like to stick with their theory.
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PostSubject: Re: The Big Bang Theory   Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:32 am

That's so Ignorant Sin.

"I haven't ever heard anything against it so it must be true. O, and your argument saying stuff against it doesn't count because I never read it. "

That's what you sound like to me in that post. Atleast make an effort.

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PostSubject: Re: The Big Bang Theory   Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:17 am

kuro wrote:
Bartimaeus wrote:
To me, the Big Fag Theory is a load of crap, and was made by fags, hence its name, Very Happy However, since I really don't want to get into trying to disprove it, as I really just don't give a crap, I'm going to just walk, (mostly), past it.
Bartimaeus wrote:
To me, the Big Cigar Theory is a load of crap, and was made by cigars, hence its name, Very Happy However, since I really don't want to get into trying to disprove it, as I really just don't give a crap, I'm going to just walk, (mostly), past it.

Well, okay.

First of all: takes less than 5 minutes to read... -.- "tl;dr" peoples. lol.

Quote :
tl;dr version, please.

To me, the Big Fag Theory is a load of crap, and was made by fags, hence its name, Very Happy However, since I really don't want to get into trying to disprove it, as I really just don't give a crap, I'm going to just walk, (mostly), past it.

(edit) Whoa, posted at almost the same exact minute as Dragon, XD.

tl;dr is part of chat speak. "xD" is part of chat speak. In your sig, where all the words "rofl zomg wtf" pop up, "xD" is in it... anyway, you also have bad grammar and an inappropriate comma... and yet you have to little flashing images that say you support bad grammar, denounce leetspeak/chatspeak, etc. Stop being a hypocrite Evil or Very Mad


My 2cents about the big bang... its all theory. Like pyth said... matter cannot go faster than light, however, since space is NOT matter (it is actually the abscence of matter) then it should be possible... however, if it isn't anything, then how is it expanding and getting bigger? Therefore, "nothing is (expanding) faster than the speed of light."

There will always be a lot that we will never know. Heck, the big bang could have even been caused by God's fart. Just so you know, there are some alternate corrections to the big bang theory. Google it Smile

A smile isn't chat speak. If I went with that, Smile, Razz, Very Happy, Wink, etc, would all be chat speak, and none of us could ever use emoticons. And I didn't say it meant cigar. I said it could. Also, tl;dr isn't chat speak, because, firstly, it's making a point. By saying tl;dr, you're effectively saying shorten it, like how I shorted too long; didn't read. And...it has a ;, which is proper grammar in an improper way, XD.
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PostSubject: Re: The Big Bang Theory   Sun Jan 18, 2009 5:49 am

TL;DR, i might later.

Kuro wrote:

Quote :
My 2cents about the big bang... its all theory. Like pyth said... matter cannot go faster than light, however, since space is NOT matter (it is actually the abscence of matter) then it should be possible... however, if it isn't anything, then how is it expanding and getting bigger? Therefore, "nothing is (expanding) faster than the speed of light."


Ever heard of Dark Matter?
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PostSubject: Re: The Big Bang Theory   Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:20 pm

Balnazzar wrote:
TL;DR, i might later.

Kuro wrote:

Quote :
My 2cents about the big bang... its all theory. Like pyth said... matter cannot go faster than light, however, since space is NOT matter (it is actually the abscence of matter) then it should be possible... however, if it isn't anything, then how is it expanding and getting bigger? Therefore, "nothing is (expanding) faster than the speed of light."


Ever heard of Dark Matter?

Dark matter and dark energy, from what I've heard of them, were only theorized to make certain mathematical formulas accurately describe the way our universe works, ad hoc as it were. I could be wrong about that though.

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PostSubject: Re: The Big Bang Theory   Sun Jan 18, 2009 5:22 pm

a negative is NOT nothing, either.


space is space. space is the abscense of matter.


dark/anti-matter is the negative form of matter. which is NOT nothing.
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PostSubject: Re: The Big Bang Theory   Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:35 pm

I've decided I, at my current knowledge, don't know enough to take an adequate position.

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