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Jay.J
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PostSubject: Re: Concerning killll   Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:03 pm

I'm not sure I understand your first sentence, explain it please?

Also, tell me - DO you know the situation of when that conversation took place? I don't think so. Did I tell you what it was? Yes I did. Now tell me, with that information - assuming I am not being biased - if you're a Moderator, and you warn someone for BLATANT flaming, and they say "Shut up, fuck you etc etc." and they say that BECAUSE you warned them, is that NOT ban worthy? If you were in Barts place, or my place would you ban him? And if you say no you wouldn't ban him, tell me then, that after he pulls this stunt, without any complaints lessening about him - would you not ban him now?

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Balnazzar
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PostSubject: Re: Concerning killll   Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:19 pm

The first sentence: if you read about the past centuries, they ALWAYS have a very powerful, and extremely close-minded (since they look after their owns interests, and not the human race benefit) " Side ", and many other ideas, and concepts get lost, since they differ from those of the ruling class.


For what other members said (members who WERE there), it seems like his flaming WASN'T too SERIOUS, just constant, if that's the case, i wouldn't of even warned him.

And no, i wouldn't consider his PAST actions.
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PostSubject: Re: Concerning killll   Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:09 pm

Quote :
And no, i wouldn't consider his PAST actions.
Did you read the whole thing?

Quote :
SinisteRing wrote:
I've gotten more than one complaint from over 3 different people asking for him to be banned. Please place all thoughts/comments and we'll come to an agreement here.

DarkDjinni wrote:
He's not "to" bad. He isn't really offensive, just ignorant I guess.

Jay.J wrote:
I warned him and deleted his topic. If he does anything stupid we'll ban him. He's on strict notice as of now.

Bartimaeus wrote:
SinisteRing wrote:
I've gotten more than one complaint from over 3 different people asking for him to be banned. Please place all thoughts/comments and we'll come to an agreement here.

If that is true, he obviously isn't changing. He disobeyed me, and flamed me after I told him to stop flaming other members, -.-

RapidFireOmega wrote:
I'll talk to him... He seems to respect me (at least in game). He isn't BAD, hes just a little... childish? Immature sometimes? I can't really get a good word for it.

Bartimaeus wrote:
Insensitive to other peoples' opinions and feelings? Inobedient? A troll?

Hm...yeah.

diaster wrote:
well idk he can be a bit annoying, but I'm not sure if it's ban worthy, I mean demonic has done worse in the past and from what I can see all killll does is leave a few insensitive comments, and ones that are hardly offensive at that...I've seriously been burned harder by my 8 year old sister than the stuff he writes...I'd also like to know who has complained because I know there are quite a few people who have a grudge against him.

Jay.J wrote:
Quote :
well idk he can be a bit annoying, but I'm not sure if it's ban worthy,

It's the fact it happens on more than one occasion.

Quote :
I mean demonic has done worse in the past and from what I can see all killll does is leave a few insensitive comments, and ones that are hardly offensive at that..
Demonic really only had that one case - and has been good since then. Killlls offenses are far more frequent.

Quote :
I've seriously been burned harder by my 8 year old sister than the stuff he writes...
Quantity is the main concern. He doesn't learn from his mistakes.

Quote :
I'd also like to know who has complained because I know there are quite a few people who have a grudge against him.
With good reason probably. He can be annoying and childish. However, if you act the same way to him he's all "WTF QQ". Complete double standards - most people who are...like that, and get it in return don't complain.

Regardless - He's been personally warned by you (For clan activities) and by me for forum activities. He's on a short leash.

SinisteRing wrote:
diaster wrote:
I'd also like to know who has complained because I know there are quite a few people who have a grudge against him.
Unless they feel like admitting themselves to you, I wont tell you for confidentiality.

Bartimaeus wrote:
Me, for one. He told me to shut up after I told him to stop flaming our members. That would be an instant-ban in wc3edit.net, for you do not disobey the moderators, and if they are wrong, you still obey them, but you report it to a higher power, not act like a retard.

diaster wrote:
I actually was fine with Jays conclusion thus the lack of my post in the days since the topic died >_>

SinisteRing wrote:
Next time he makes a wrong move, you can wish him goodbye, because I'm smashing his head with the banhammer. It's been sharp and unused. I'd like to try it out someday, eh?

diaster wrote:
how can the b& hammer be sharp? or are you talking more traditional hammer over war hammer style b& hammer?

Don't tell me past actions don't matter. What's the point of rules or a strike system if you don't use it? He's a FREQUENT offender. It's not a big deal what he did, but it's the fact that he doesn't stop. Again, I was on your side earlier to an extent, but after reconsideration - he DOES deserve to be banned.

Quote :
The first sentence: if you read about the past centuries, they ALWAYS have a very powerful, and extremely close-minded (since they look after their owns interests, and not the human race benefit) " Side ", and many other ideas, and concepts get lost, since they differ from those of the ruling class.

Honestly. This is just a bad parallel. This is a freaking forum. The main problem in your whole thing is the CLOSE-MINDEDNESS not the Elitism. That's not anything against elitism. Unless you want to say we're close minded, when considering we actually took opinions and discussed it, and not just as a gesture you'd be hard pressed to say we were. A "Democratic" and close-minded system is worse than an open-minded Elite system. Your whole argument revolves around us being close-minded. Try to argue we are, the mere act of argueing, and us replying and considering your opinion shows we aren't.

Elitism: leadership or rule by an elite
Leadership: the act or an instance of leading
Elite: the best of a class

From Merriam Webster.

Now then, how is having someone who is the "best of a class", the class being the forums, leading wrong? Your only argument is we aren't the best - which I'll grant might be true, but it doesn't stop Elitism form being bad at all. I think you have a bad view of what elitism really is.

Quote :
For what other members said (members who WERE there), it seems like his flaming WASN'T too SERIOUS, just constant, if that's the case, i wouldn't of even warned him.

You never answered my question. If YOU were a Moderator, and you warned someone for flaming another member and they told you to "Shut up" or "Fuck off" you wouldn't ban them? And just let them run rampant? If so that's why you're not a moderator, and if you were you wouldn't be a very good one.

I'm letting this topic only live for a bit longer. I don't appreciate this Moderators versus Members argument.

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PostSubject: Re: Concerning killll   Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:00 pm

Quote :
I'm letting this topic only live for a bit longer. I don't appreciate this Moderators versus Members argument.

That proves my point so much.

And i answered your question, as i said, i wouldn't of warned him for flaming a little constantly, but yes for flaming a lot once.
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PostSubject: Re: Concerning killll   Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:13 pm

O jeeze, way to nit-pick and just ignore everything else. I absolutely hate that shit. I take the time to respond to you, I put some thought into it - and you can't counter ANYTHING I've said, so you just nit-pick that? If you don't have a decent reply next post, consider this topic closed.

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Balnazzar
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PostSubject: Re: Concerning killll   Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:08 am

Reply to what?

Your questions were all rhetorical, but i did forget to say something important on the last post:

Quote :
Your whole argument revolves around us being close-minded. Try to argue we are, the mere act of argueing, and us replying and considering your opinion shows we aren't.

I highly doubt you (not particulary you, Jay.j, but the people you are talking about as a whole) "Consider" those opinions.
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PostSubject: Re: Concerning killll   Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:24 am

You're telling me that out of that WHOLE post the only thing you can respond to is that I said I would close it because I didn't want a war to start between Mods & Members?

You couldn't respond to the red parts, where it was agreed anything he did that was unapproved of would get him banned?

You couldn't respond to the whole strike system and the point of it? That's not rhetorical.

You couldn't respond to how I said you had a bad a parallel? Do you just accept that, or do you still hold your belief? Either way you could easily say "True, it is a bad parallel" or "It's not because of X Y & Z"

You couldn't respond to how Elitism isn't a bad thing at all, and that you have the wrong idea about it. If anything you're the one being very close minded here.

Also - you don't consider telling a mod being told to shut up for warning him warrant of ban? You never answered. You just said you wouldn't have warned him for flaming. (Which is why I said you would make a bad Mod). Point is - if you DID warn him, and he didn't respect your authority in anyway, and revolted and questioned it....you don't think that's ban worthy?

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PostSubject: Re: Concerning killll   Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:51 am

I'll start by the last thing, i guess, if that was the case i would ban him, but not for so long, at that moment would be my warning, not because of the flaming, and i wouldn't consider myself a deity in a way that they have to respect and always agree with me, wich seems to be what bartimaues wanted, that's why i say it seems like a grudge, besides, i don't think flaming a little constantly is worth warning him, flaming a lot once and abusing is, but i already said that.


And concerning the other subjects:

A. I didn't think it was worth it, since as i said you seem close-minded about it.
B. I Didn't have the time at the moment.

The red parts: As i said, most of the conversation seems to be the product of a grudge of Sinistering and Bartimaues towards killll, i really don't consider his offenses so serious, just constant.


The rest of it, concerning elitetism, doesn't belong here, but on the debate section.
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PostSubject: Re: Concerning killll   Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:57 am

i find it humorous that you wish hades to be demoted for flaming yet you protect killll from punishment when he has flamed on multiple accounts and impersonated Rhys, a past moderator, and MM&M map programmer.
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PostSubject: Re: Concerning killll   Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:31 am

SinisteRing wrote:
Next time he makes a wrong move, you can wish him goodbye, because I'm smashing his head with the banhammer. It's been sharp and unused. I'd like to try it out someday, eh?
I stick to my word.

Also, Bal, why are you defending him? Are you a friend of his in real life or something?


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PostSubject: Re: Concerning killll   Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:32 am

It doesn't HAVE to be a permanent ban, but let's see how it goes. Maybe we can let him back in a few weeks or something, just let everyone settle for a while and see how everyone feels and how he behaves elsewhere.
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PostSubject: Re: Concerning killll   Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:38 am

Quote :
Also, Bal, why are you defending him? Are you a friend of his in real life or something?

Because i don't think it's fair to ban him for 10 months.


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PostSubject: Re: Concerning killll   Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:02 am

10 months? He's currently only banned for 7 days (6 now).
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PostSubject: Re: Concerning killll   Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:08 am

that seems fine to me, so long as it isn't a perma ban.
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PostSubject: Re: Concerning killll   Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:05 am

Lol, wasn't he banned till october?
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PostSubject: Re: Concerning killll   Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:18 am

kuro wrote:
i find it humorous that you wish hades to be demoted for flaming yet you protect killll from punishment when he has flamed on multiple accounts and impersonated Rhys, a past moderator, and MM&M map programmer.

please respond, bal.

also nobody ever said "he is banned until october."

where did you get that? o.O

also you could have just said "lower the ban time" instead of all this debating, haha Razz
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