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 Forum Poll (8/14): Unique Items

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Unique Items
Put it In
38%
 38% [ 3 ]
Keep that Out
62%
 62% [ 5 ]
Total Votes : 8
 

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Rhys
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PostSubject: Forum Poll (8/14): Unique Items   Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:07 pm

Ive gone through My head over and over of how to do this. I will be upfront and honest and say that I have something specific in mind and Im going to share it with you below in this forum poll. Now The suggestions where numerous and many people talked to me privately both through forums and the bnet channel. After much Debate Im pretty much settled on the idea that Unique Items will not be able to be saved and there for also not able to be Equipped. Now I know this may contridict about half of the community and the other half is happy about this but its not entirely set in stone yet however and I am running multiple tests to see how the unique system will work.

I Epically failed at making a system that will allow just one of any unique item, there where so many issues its hard to explain.

Having More extremely high costed gear choices would be fun for the -NM players and pointless for the -ANNS players. As it stands about 3/4's of my balancing is done for -ANNS mode.

Making it Non-Savable means I can lower the price on it justifiably. If you have to buy it every game because your strategy depends on the item then its a recurring fee.

Making it a Non-Equipment Item solves many Saving issues that people will have with a Non-Savable Item, as everyone knows that any items in your holding inventory are not saved.

Making it a Non-Equipment Item will actually give the Late game a boost, since you do not have to replace your equipped gear to have the benefits of said Unique Item any stat bonus's will be in addition to what you currently have, which means the possible max Power a mage could attain would become larger for a recurring price.

There is More to discuss on this but for now lets introduce what I have so far. So Far I have Tested 3 Items that I will either keep modify or trash. They all follow a basic Theme of a 600 Aoe Aura and they Have the Same amount of Total Stats. Here they Are :


Orb of Lim'Dul
Cost : 88 Gold 8 Skill Points
This orb radiates energy in a 600 AOE, Increasing Attack Speed by 20% to any effected Ally. The Wielder of Orb of Lim'Dul receives +8 Power, -4 Essence and +8 Stamina.
Unique: This Item is Unique and Will not Save with Your character.

Orb of Shur'Esh
Cost : 88 Gold 8 Skill Points
This orb radiates energy in a 600 AOE, Increasing Physical Attack Damage by 15% to any effected Ally. The Wielder of Orb of Lim'Dul receives +8 Power, +8 Essence and -4 Stamina.
Unique: This Item is Unique and Will not Save with Your character.

Orb of Rae'Jin
Cost : 88 Gold 8 Skill Points
This orb radiates energy in a 600 AOE, Regenerating 2.5 Hit Points Per Second to any effected Ally. The Wielder of Orb of Lim'Dul receives -4 Power, +8 Essence and +8 Stamina.
Unique: This Item is Unique and Will not Save with Your character.


The Cooldown to buy these will Be set to One Hour, so literally if You buy a Unique Item you will be the only one to have it for at least One Hour of Game Time and most likely your game will be over by then.

Since there is now a Skill Point Purchaser I feel Charging Skill Points is not a bad thing for these Items. If I did not the equivalent price for 8 Skill Points is 232 Gold. If these items costed that much they would not see much play in anything besides a Max leveled Game.

The Elemental Gear gives an Average of a dozen stat points, I wanted these to be on par with that but I felt they should be higher when I saw them in action the first time, So I balanced it out with a negative stat gain which allows me to increase in other areas (16 Stat point bonus instead of 12) I Actually really like the trade off situation that this creates.




Ok thats what Ive got right now, this is a fairly open discussion but I would liek to ask anyone who feels they have the time to post a response please vote as well.

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PostSubject: Re: Forum Poll (8/14): Unique Items   Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:32 pm

Unique items sound interesting as a concept, but those examples are trash. Those are basically just a way to make high levels more imba if they farm for money often enough. Completely bad idea imo, and the costs aren't even maintainable. It would be like every other game or every third game that you could afford to buy it, and only after you were maxed.

I was assuming Unique items would have a requirement to get other than a ridiculous cost, and would give a fun effect instead of just a ridiculous stat increase. With this, I'll just save up money, then buy all three and be able to dominate 3v1 against people who can't afford these or were too slow to buy them.

No offense, but I really dislike this idea and would not be using the unique items in their current form. I support unique items obtained through boss fights that give abilities NOT stats.
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PostSubject: Re: Forum Poll (8/14): Unique Items   Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:46 pm

Terrible idea, sorry. In short and simple words, makes the strong stronger, and the weak weaker. They add no skill. They add nothing to the game. They add no diversity. They aren't difficult to get. They just do absolutely nothing.

Like REALLY. What is the point of those items? They just make the balancing system even worse.

If Unique items aren't either from bosses, savable but different (like an ability instead of boosting spells or lots of stats) or both they just will not work, and I'm completely against it.

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PostSubject: Re: Forum Poll (8/14): Unique Items   Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:56 pm

I also want to point out that I don't care about savable or not. I wanna make sure that these items are not just a boost to the already strong, but in fact require something unique to obtain. In addition, they shouldn't give standard bonuses like stats or regeneration. They should do more interesting things like abilities or maybe auras. Although if they give auras, I expect to see awesome and unique triggered auras. For instance, you could make an aura that your attacks to turn into Frostbolts, although then they could be dodged, they would do alot more damage. Not necessarily a good idea there, but that is the type of concept for a fun aura that I would expect.


Again, I don't want to sound harsh or put any stress on you Rhys. I just dislike this particular idea you laid out.
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PostSubject: Re: Forum Poll (8/14): Unique Items   Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:59 pm

If my post made it seem like I wanted super items, then I worded it badly and you would be mistaken.
I was thinking:
Non-elemental items = Lots of stats
Elemental items = Spell boosts, moderate stats
Unique items = Unique abilities/skills/aura/passive etc., minimal stats

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PostSubject: Re: Forum Poll (8/14): Unique Items   Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:03 pm

I was still talking about Rhys.

Yeah, I basically agree with how you laid that out, except that I rather like the concept of unique items in the inventory. And if that is the case, they need too give no stats to keep them from being too important or overpowered.


Edit: Hey! Someone just voted and didn't post! WHO DID THAT!
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PostSubject: Re: Forum Poll (8/14): Unique Items   Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:48 pm

From what you are saying it seems like all 3 orbs are buyable.

So basically, the heros that start closest to the shop or have a form of movement spell will always get these?

Please tell me my train of thought is wrong.
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Rhys
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PostSubject: Re: Forum Poll (8/14): Unique Items   Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:06 pm

Sure your train of thought could be wrong by simply putting a delayed stocking time at set intervals for each one based on value. The weakest will become available exactly 5 minutes into game, then 10 minutes for next then 15 for the next. and so on and on for any future untold uniques.

My point being my oh so quick to judge friends is that these are examples.

Now no matter what is laid out for a unique item you will always be able to say it makes the strong stronger and the weak weaker.

Please prove me wrong on this sentence. You cant don't bother.

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PostSubject: Re: Forum Poll (8/14): Unique Items   Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:07 pm

You are correct, but those examples directly make them stronger. Our suggestions make them more versatile and only slightly stronger.

Or, if this is truly the case and is unavoidable, we should just scrap the idea altogether IMO. Making the strong stronger is bad.
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PostSubject: Re: Forum Poll (8/14): Unique Items   Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:20 pm

I also don't like the idea sorry to say...nm might be played more than anns for now but once short mode is out (which better be soon XP) NM will be underplayed. The unique items should be items nm players get from bosses that take up a reg slot. The items should also jsut contain different abilities, not be imba pieces of armor.
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PostSubject: Re: Forum Poll (8/14): Unique Items   Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:30 pm

Quote :
Now no matter what is laid out for a unique item you will always be able to say it makes the strong stronger and the weak weaker.

Please prove me wrong on this sentence. You cant don't bother.

Umm not really. Did you even bother to look at my item layout? The items would be, like I've said numerous times, equal but different. I'll say it again:

Non-elemental: High stat-gain, nothing special
Elemental: Boosts spells in more ways then power would and otherways that aren't possible by stats (CD/Mana/Range etc.) Moderate stat gain, so if you don't use a certain spell in your playstyle, you might want one of the other 2 instead.
Unique: They would have abilities, skills, passives, auras etc. They would have minimal stat gain, but you might still want it because it combos well with your playstyle, or does something you like.

They would be saved, so they don't make the strong stronger, because it's the same as getting any item. Not getting any item, and then another one on top.


Also, I just played 7.13b. They're even worse than I thought. Not only do they screw up noobs who join our game, but they just aren't even good items. They also have terrible CD on them, so only one person can get them. HOWEVER, I do like the step of getting quests in the middle. The current one is pretty good.

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PostSubject: Re: Forum Poll (8/14): Unique Items   Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:07 pm

You played 7.13b without me?


You played a test version.... without me?


I need to ponder my testing strategies....

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PostSubject: Re: Forum Poll (8/14): Unique Items   Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:44 am

I told you not to. It was released publicaly. Like 3-4 pubs played it. I think they all quit. You really should be keeping your test group to a minimum, not just anyone who's in the clan.

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PostSubject: Re: Forum Poll (8/14): Unique Items   Fri Aug 15, 2008 2:15 pm

I know exactly who I let test with me, testing will no longer be done like before, the privilege was abused and will now be taken away. Testing will not be done privately with Shamans only.

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PostSubject: Re: Forum Poll (8/14): Unique Items   Fri Aug 15, 2008 2:27 pm

Shamans + Jay and DarkDjinni? I think they have earned the right to test as well.

PM me if your gonna test, and I'll try to get on.
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PostSubject: Re: Forum Poll (8/14): Unique Items   Fri Aug 15, 2008 2:31 pm

Quote :
I know exactly who I let test with me, testing will no longer be done like before, the privilege was abused and will now be taken away. Testing will not be done privately with Shamans only.

"Not" be done with shamans only, or "now"? Also, I do agree with Dragon, in that me & Djinni if he wants too, should have the privellege of being able to test games.

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PostSubject: Re: Forum Poll (8/14): Unique Items   Fri Aug 15, 2008 2:33 pm

I read it as "now". It was my understanding that he was testing with the whole clan and/or anyone that wanted to. If he means "not" then I am confused.
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PostSubject: Re: Forum Poll (8/14): Unique Items   Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:47 pm

first of all i would like to say i cant host so dont go pointing fingers at me.

secondly you really need to add something in to the title... like 'testing'

someone could have been hosting and 1 thought that it was a new solid version or 2just thought it was the most recent version but unknowingly hosted the test version.

if you label it TEST then people would probably refrain from hosting it... couldve been an innocent error.

e.g. first person hosts it as an innocent error. other people think it is a new solid version and begin hosting it. boom! everyone is playing it because it wasnt labeled 'TEST' version or rhys didnt spam 'please do not host version 7.13b'.

just make it clear to everyone which version is a test version not to be hosted.

(i am sad because i can now no longer play games with rhys Sad , all grunts and peons cant- but killll can T.T Sad im so jealous of his recent promotion now >_<)
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PostSubject: Re: Forum Poll (8/14): Unique Items   Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:23 pm

Lets get this clear, I do not care that anyone tests the map with me, I am upset because there are things in the TEST versions of maps that I do not want the general community to see, such as the testing of unique items. Now I knew well ahead of time when testing these items that they probably would not be accepted by a few people and thats exactly why I test them with so few people, so that people don't find these out. If I want input I will post it on the forums like I did for these items. In general though I test every idea I get in my head and yes some may be horrible and some may be great but you can bet your life that even if it sucks Im going to test it out with some people to see the general response.

Now I got over that when I read about it but that is not why Im upset. The thing I am most seriously pissed about is the fact that Jay.J knows about the War Quest I am going to add into the middle of the AOS war and now publicly presented it to everyone. I am so pissed because I wanted that to be a surprise for everyone from me. Now its not going to be=(

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PostSubject: Re: Forum Poll (8/14): Unique Items   Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:58 pm

That isn't because Jay isn't trustworthy, but rather because you didn't ask him to keep it a secret. I'm sure Jay wouldn't spill if you asked him not to, SinisteRing confided in him many times and I could not pry it out. But yeah, I support testing with only trustworthy people like Shamans, Jay, maybe some of the more elite clan members. And don't forget to remind us to keep it secret if you don't want things told.



Rhys wrote:
In general though I test every idea I get in my head and yes some may be horrible and some may be great but you can bet your life that even if it sucks Im going out test it out with some people to see the general response.

That is fine with me, and I don't care about you testing the "Unique Items" idea. I got nothing against you testing ideas or trying new things, especially when you let us have a voice in it like you did. I want to apologize again if I sounded too harsh.
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PostSubject: Re: Forum Poll (8/14): Unique Items   Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:39 pm

I sincerely apologize for "Spilling the beans". I actually should have PMed you about it instead of posting it. You could have deleted the posts, so that few people would have seen it if you felt that was needed. I don't think you're mad at me personaly, and if you are I apologize times ten, but I think you're mad at the situation.
What I can say is that my secrecy keeping abilities are pretty good. Many people asked my about the new element that was going to come out, which I knew about since the time of Zync's leaving and SinisteRing first getting the map. (Talking about Spirit here). I've been given the changelog and have not had it leaked, and back when I could host did not leak versison that I tested. I will keep in mind that, whether you think of it as a secret or not, anything that is in a test version will not be posted about unless you otherwise say so. Secrets and such, like the snow of confusion.

However, this is getting offtopic, so

Ontopic: Quick question, with the test version I assume you're not going to implement THOSE type or atleast not those items as unique ones?

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PostSubject: Re: Forum Poll (8/14): Unique Items   Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:08 pm

No those items will not be in any future versions of the game and technically wont be in 7.13b either.

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PostSubject: Re: Forum Poll (8/14): Unique Items   Sat Aug 16, 2008 4:06 am

quick question because i cannot host; what is/was the war quest? i didnt even know the grunt gave a quest XP
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PostSubject: Re: Forum Poll (8/14): Unique Items   Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:07 pm

Ok, well I am adding a new Quest to the game, specifically in the AOS Island during the War. The quest involves Killing a Specific Unit, namely being another player. The number of kills and rewards is undetermined. Mostly because you get the benefit of killing a player as long as the player dies around you. Ill experiment with it but I particularly like the idea of this and will most likely be in the next official release.

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PostSubject: Re: Forum Poll (8/14): Unique Items   Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:53 pm

Rhys wrote:
Ok, well I am adding a new Quest to the game, specifically in the AOS Island during the War. The quest involves Killing a Specific Unit, namely being another player. The number of kills and rewards is undetermined. Mostly because you get the benefit of killing a player as long as the player dies around you. Ill experiment with it but I particularly like the idea of this and will most likely be in the next official release.

I have a few ideas on this, just reply here or PM me if you want to hear them.

I will reply in PM, not here.
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