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 State of the Game - Dead with hope (7/29/08)

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diaster
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game - Dead with hope (7/29/08)   Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:53 am

well I'm a gui user which is why it would be better for a code monkey to take it up, because if I were to there would first be a learning curve then the map would probably end up with a mix of gui and vjass things which I could easily see not being the most efficient. If you need ideas or support you will have the MM&M community to look to. My latest work is taking a 3.55mb map and turning it into a 2.32 mb map while adding another skin revamped the entire game system from having a few triggers per player for something to 1 trigger for each action that works for all players and uses no variables. Dummy units hold crazy amount of info I've come to realize.
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game - Dead with hope (7/29/08)   Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:24 am

I ready multiple comments that I was cruel and that SinisteRing has the right to quit if he wants. I cannot disagree. But, my point was that he simply doesn't care for the project. He was extremely dedicated for a short while, and that was impressive, but like most teenagers his interest cannot be held by anything for long. That is why I think it was fail to give him the map. I could see from the start that it was a declining wave, but I wanted to ride it out as long as possible. He did excellent work, but like Zync he simply cannot dedicate himself to the map. (It is kind of sad when neither the original maker or the hand-off person are willing to commit to the project. It definitely doesn't say good things about the future of it.)


However, I fully support the community (Primarily diaster, Jay J., BashandSmash, and Rhys.) balancing while Pythagoras codes. I suggest that Pythagoras take up the official title of maker and we kill this open source idea. (That is fail as well.) Pythagoras might not stay permanently, but any steps in the right direction progress the map just as Zync and SinisteRing were steps along the path. It is time to enter the third leg of this epic under taking and make the best of it that we can.

Although Pythagoras might not wish the responsibility, I believe he should at least take on the title to stop open source from demolishing the map. In the meantime, the community can drive the map with Pythagoras (And/or Jay J.) making final decisions and Pythagoras coding. (If willing.) I don't expect a huge commitment, but anything you offer is better than none. I will stay with the map as long as there is hope and continue to add my support and opinions. I hope all of you do the same.

P.S. I would hope that SinisteRing rejoins the community as a player and continues to offer ideas and insights. He was quite good at it, and I believe he could be a significant help in guiding the next leg of the map. (Especially in the beginning.)

P.P.S. I also want to ask once again for SinisteRing's design notes. I believe those could be very important and maybe even instrumental in the continuation of the map and giving direction to the progress.
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game - Dead with hope (7/29/08)   Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:08 am

I updated the first post for direct links. Sorry about that - you had to register to see them.

Quote :
P.P.S. I also want to ask once again for SinisteRing's design notes. I believe those could be very important and maybe even instrumental in the continuation of the map and giving direction to the progress.
They're in the link...
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game - Dead with hope (7/29/08)   Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:57 am

[quote="Dragonheart91"]
However, I fully support the community (Primarily diaster, Jay J., BashandSmash, and Rhys.) balancing while Pythagoras codes. I suggest that Pythagoras take up the official title of maker and we kill this open source idea. (That is fail as well.)

I agree with this

Having 1 maker was always good but in this game there is so much to do and balance
As quoted above if we had a few people all working on the map it would work. Eg because someone could be working on a spells code and get it working then ship it to the main maker whoever it may be (this way we can keep the map going while not drowning 1 person with so much stuff to do) which is probably one of the reasons zync and siniste have left/leaving
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game - Dead with hope (7/29/08)   Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:21 am

if MM&M was dead nobody would posting here. at all. but people are. which proves that MM&M is just in recession.

we even had a full house MM&M game today. which was fun.

im going to make a poll on who volunteers to contribute to the 'new community' version thing.
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game - Dead with hope (7/29/08)   Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:47 am

I 100% agree that the open source should be removed. I don't think anyone is saying that the map is dead NOW. However, having more than one maker is what WILL kill it. Especially if the makers aren't working together (Like a possible Diaster/Pyth combo).

Pass the map on directly. It's the only possible way it will survive, and even then - who knows for how long. The only people I think that would be able to do anything justice wise the map are diaster (who doesn't know VJASS) and Pyth who claims he isn't dedicated and creative (OK there secret Zync, you just don't want your map back Razz). A joint effort between the two would probably be best, with the community for balance issues. Personally I think there is enough for content ideas.

Just working on a possible new item system, bosses, revamp of the RPG system, Advanced elements, M-spells, 2 possible new elements, spell remakes etc etc. seems like it's just content that needs to be put into the game before any new ideas are thought up - besides ideas on how to implement said ideas. And honestly, I'm willing to number crunch/test for balance purposes if you guys do decide to take up the project and help balance the game by making direct suggestions of stuff like what attack damage the bosses should have, how much damage spells do/cost etc.

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diaster
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game - Dead with hope (7/29/08)   Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:58 am

Well I think Rhys should also be considered for some of this if he really has fixed what he said he fixed in such a short time. I mean w/ pyth programming hard code, and me only knowing gui it think the only thing I'd be able to do is make skills then have him translate them into vjass which isn't that hard, and with this combination I fear things would become to much for pyth so if rhys wanted to join the team as a debugger, as in he double checks pyth work, test and fixes i think the work would be spread pretty even although I know pyth wanted to make abilities.
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game - Dead with hope (7/29/08)   Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:26 pm

so this is what im coming back to in a week....

thats alot of bullshit sin...

EDIT: also think the link should be deleted if it wasnt already i havnt read all the posts
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game - Dead with hope (7/29/08)   Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:18 pm

Dibs on creating new terrian!

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diaster
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game - Dead with hope (7/29/08)   Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:32 pm

ha, well only issue i could see with that is the work rhys and I would be doing could be imported into the map, dunno bout terrain work...but if it can I'd say that be a good idea.
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game - Dead with hope (7/29/08)   Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:53 pm

Well, basically I support Rhys becoming the new mapper and Pythagoras helping him code. If he is willing to give a few hours per week, that is more than enough.

Edit: No diaster, I was wrong. I was simply looking at the wrong thread. Please disregard my statement, as I was hoping I deleted it before anyone read it.


Last edited by Dragonheart91 on Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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diaster
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game - Dead with hope (7/29/08)   Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:57 pm

holy crap it was...dunno why though...well I read it and I get what you were saying about commitment (which might have been why it was deleted thinking about it) but I don't quite agree on starting off. Talent is no substitute for experience in my opinion and until Rhys gets some hardcore programming under his belt I think it should goto Pyth.
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game - Dead with hope (7/29/08)   Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:07 pm

I don't disagree with Pythagoras doing the coding, but I don't think he wants the responsibility. We need to hear from Rhys and Pythagoras. Also, Pythagoras has stated than he doesn't want to do the balancing, and Rhys seems like a good choice to do that. He was already one of the primary contributors to the balance discussions along with Jay J., SinisteRing, and sometimes myself. (Yeah, the forum was only like half of it. The rest took place behind closed doors with a small group usually in Ventrillo conversations.)
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diaster
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game - Dead with hope (7/29/08)   Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:54 pm

ya I kinda figured as much which is why most of the time my points went out of the way to get Jay to agree with them. Sorry I use you Jay.
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game - Dead with hope (7/29/08)   Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:53 pm

I really need to get my comp up and running... so much to do. If Py is willing to take it I know he can do good things, but I do think that having other people help him with stuff will be good, such as terrain and some coding if at all possible.

I keep hearing about a Vetrillo, so whats the info for it? I need to get on. If theres any way I can help please let me know, but I cant code for much, and i can't figure out triggers yet.
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game - Dead with hope (7/29/08)   Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:06 pm

Quote :
ya I kinda figured as much which is why most of the time my points went out of the way to get Jay to agree with them. Sorry I use you Jay.

Huh? What do you mean :S...Example...?

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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game - Dead with hope (7/29/08)   Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:47 am

I don't care if it is "abuse of power," this map cannot stay open source. Therefore, I removed the links. SinisteRing left us, and he no longer holds any power over us. I feel it is in the best interest of the map to now protect it and only allow the few who have it to maintain the open source versions. I would also ask Jay J. to delete and destroy the attachments on the other forum. But, it is rather hard to find the open source now so it is relatively safe. We have new mappers, no need to keep the risk open.
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game - Dead with hope (7/29/08)   Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:16 am

Who has the latest unprotected version? Please send it to me. I want to start remaking the terrian right away. D:!
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game - Dead with hope (7/29/08)   Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:31 am

DeathByCyanide wrote:
Who has the latest unprotected version? Please send it to me. I want to start remaking the terrian right away. D:!
Rhys and myself have two different versions of the map. Rhys has already released his version protected. I'm dealing with the stability and efficiency of the map in most of my changes, although I do have new spell codes ready for allocation.

I will most likely not be releasing my edits to the public, as it would spite the community to diverge in such a manner, and they seem to prefer that updates are as hasty as possible, which I don't agree with.

Its up to you about who you want to talk to.

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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game - Dead with hope (7/29/08)   Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:14 am

Not paticurly helpful here but

YAY Very Happy ITS ALIVE
I was scared for a moment there that if was gone affraid
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game - Dead with hope (7/29/08)   Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:24 pm

Link removed by me. I think SinisteRing made it not oen source before I removed the link though.

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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game - Dead with hope (7/29/08)   Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:10 am

This will all be ressurrected when the new improved starcraft 2 editor comes out. Then we will be looking at Guns, Goliaths & Gargantuans.
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game - Dead with hope (7/29/08)   Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:16 am

It isn't dead. Regardless of SinisteRing's attempt to kill it here, everyone snapped up the project and refused to let it die. It is now being worked on by Rhys and Pythagoras. (Rhys for head mapper and balancer, and Pythagoras for head coder.)
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game - Dead with hope (7/29/08)   Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:01 pm

unless the starcraft editor is over 9000 time better I'd actually probably prefer to stick w/ warcraft. I find midevil units are able to adapt to many more styles of games than space age and well since I've been w/ warcraft 3 for almost 5 years now I'd feel really sad to leave it behind.
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PostSubject: Re: State of the Game - Dead with hope (7/29/08)   Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:07 pm

@Over 9000: WHAT?!


But yeah, I'm nostalgic for WC3 now, I have had it for so long. In any case, if the world editor is REALLY better, and the graphics are greatly improved, I might do both.
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