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 If nobody is going to fix the map....

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Moop
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PostSubject: If nobody is going to fix the map....   Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:32 pm

Can it be made open source so that others can take a look at what was done and at least take a stab at fixing or bringing back a playable version even with some features disabled? A couple of unprotected versions to choose from would be ideal.

Yes I know that it's a complicated map. But at least giving those who are interested in trying to help out the option to do so is worth it I think.

Or is the code unreadable to the point that anybody who hasn't worked with it extensively will be unable to understand it no matter how good they are at programming IE. no comments, stupid function names like a b or c. I heard they actually have function names like that in DotA
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Coverzin
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PostSubject: Re: If nobody is going to fix the map....   Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:43 pm

It's not worth it bro. Go make a SC2 map or something.
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Jay.J
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PostSubject: Re: If nobody is going to fix the map....   Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:01 am

It has been released open source AFAIK.

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Moop
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PostSubject: Re: If nobody is going to fix the map....   Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:14 am

Where at? It's not somewhere that I can see(on this website or google)
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ThisIsGinga
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PostSubject: Re: If nobody is going to fix the map....   Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:03 pm

http://www.mediafire.com/?jm12yw1rtnl
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Moop
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PostSubject: Re: If nobody is going to fix the map....   Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:15 pm

Are there any earlier versions like 7.20c?

Thank you though, I dled it.
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ThisIsGinga
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PostSubject: Re: If nobody is going to fix the map....   Sun Aug 08, 2010 4:09 pm

No other versions were released unprotected that I know of. By the way I tried to get several people to fix it, and none of them were able to fix it. It's a very complicated map and none of the previous developers have the skill/time/will to fix it.
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Piddagoras
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PostSubject: Re: If nobody is going to fix the map....   Sun Aug 08, 2010 7:01 pm

I attempted for a good 3 hours to get it to work again. Took out about 3000 lines of unused code, went through nearly the entirety of the used code looking for possible problems, came up empty, gave up.

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Moop
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PostSubject: Re: If nobody is going to fix the map....   Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:55 pm

First, I'd just like to say that I'm not at all familiar with the map's code so that's why I'm asking so many questions. If you've already done or considered some of this stuff because it seems obvious, don't take offense, I'm just trying to help problem solve. I have no idea about what has and hasn't been tried at this point.

It seems we need a better way to try and isolate where the errors are occuring(duh) because reading through the entire set of code is lame. Are the different modules in this map so connected that not many can be removed, disabled or run alone in a completely new map? What modules would be necessary for the map to initialize and then do nothing else? Are there any modules in the initialization that can be removed and still have the map start up(although obviously not do as much).

It seems it's not a compiler issue. JassHelper turned up one error in the ItemStructure struct array declaration saying that it expects size. I think that's a JassHelper specific issue though because it happily compiled the map when I stuck a [6] in.

Does WC3 allow for any way to communicate debugging info if it fails during initialization? Is there any possible way for it to communicate with an external program or spit out data to a .txt file?

Is it possible that there were any undocumented changes with 1.24? I know that it's kind of an easy answer but ninja changes aren't unheard of. While I'm sure that anybody looking at this has already done this, I read through the 1.24 patch notes. Other than the return bug, the only thing that really stood out was this: “Shadowing” global variables with local variables no longer is possible. I'm not familiar enough with the 22,000 lines of code(at least that's what JassHelper says it is) to know if this it relevant. I'm sure that it has already been considered by someone but I just wanted to be sure.

Also, just curious, what programs are you using to create/edit code? JassHelper + The editor or something else?
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Piddagoras
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PostSubject: Re: If nobody is going to fix the map....   Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:08 pm

Moop wrote:
First, I'd just like to say that I'm not at all familiar with the map's code so that's why I'm asking so many questions. If you've already done or considered some of this stuff because it seems obvious, don't take offense, I'm just trying to help problem solve. I have no idea about what has and hasn't been tried at this point.

It seems we need a better way to try and isolate where the errors are occuring(duh) because reading through the entire set of code is lame. Are the different modules in this map so connected that not many can be removed, disabled or run alone in a completely new map? What modules would be necessary for the map to initialize and then do nothing else? Are there any modules in the initialization that can be removed and still have the map start up(although obviously not do as much).

It seems it's not a compiler issue. JassHelper turned up one error in the ItemStructure struct array declaration saying that it expects size. I think that's a JassHelper specific issue though because it happily compiled the map when I stuck a [6] in.

Does WC3 allow for any way to communicate debugging info if it fails during initialization? Is there any possible way for it to communicate with an external program or spit out data to a .txt file?

Is it possible that there were any undocumented changes with 1.24? I know that it's kind of an easy answer but ninja changes aren't unheard of. While I'm sure that anybody looking at this has already done this, I read through the 1.24 patch notes. Other than the return bug, the only thing that really stood out was this: “Shadowing” global variables with local variables no longer is possible. I'm not familiar enough with the 22,000 lines of code(at least that's what JassHelper says it is) to know if this it relevant. I'm sure that it has already been considered by someone but I just wanted to be sure.

Also, just curious, what programs are you using to create/edit code? JassHelper + The editor or something else?

Bold is correct, there are entanglement issues that make debugging excruciating.

Compiler compiles fine, but WC3 will not execute code that is in violation of certain rules that were implimented in 1.24. I checked for all the listed prohibited code instances, but after removing them WC3 still doesn't initialize the map.

Edit: By the way, for someone who is unfamiliar (with the map, at least, if not with coding), you seem to have a decent mind for coding in general. I used to use NewGen, which includes JassHelper and some other tools bundled into the original editor, you can google it for a download.

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Moop
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PostSubject: Re: If nobody is going to fix the map....   Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:01 am

Hmm, okay. I'm going to take a good look through the segments under initialization to get an idea of how this map really works.

Off the top of your head, are there any modules that are involved in more other modules than most?
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Moop
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PostSubject: Re: If nobody is going to fix the map....   Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:17 pm

Well I've been looking through the initialization triggers and libraries. Progress is slow thanks to the lack of a class browser and my unfamiliarity with a lot of the function libraries imported.

I did find this though:
Code:

function US2I takes UnitStruct us returns integer
    return us
endfunction
Is that not the return bug?

Also:
Code:

function SetHeroStruct takes unit u, HeroStruct hs returns nothing
    set hs.this = u
    call AttachInt( u, "structIndex", hs )
endfunction
Does JASS do some behind the scenes type conversion or something? According to the documentation in the map, AttachInt takes a handle, a string and an integer. hs is of type HeroStruct. Should it be something along the lines of:
Code:

function SetHeroStruct takes unit u, HeroStruct hs returns nothing
    set hs.this = u
    call AttachInt( u, "structIndex", GetAttachedInt(hs, "InsertIntegerLabelHere") )
endfunction
?

Is there a possibility that one of the imported libraries has an issue that's holding us back?

Also: What does WC3 actually do upon clicking the Start Game button? Does it read through every function, struct and library to check that they're legit? Does it only do that for said things included in triggers marked with Run on Initialization? Does it do something else?
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Zen
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PostSubject: Re: If nobody is going to fix the map....   Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:30 pm

Hi sorry i am knew here but i think i may have some very profitable ideas. I have been playing mmm for a very long time, since the other guy that lives in europe started. It was a great map and here is some of my suggestions.

They should revert it back to 4.0 right now it is 7.0 or higher. Reasons being -

- People play this game like a PvP map. All mages just want damage. That is why Multe Spell books are unbalanced. Also wind was useless for a long time with it's lack of damage. I hate to use wow psychology but ---- Fire needs more versatility, ice is pretty good last time i saw. Wind needs some more damage, lightning has good damage but could benefit from something more, water should be more of a support and summons book ( mana, healing, massive summons) Death would be ok with summons but your spells should be able to heal them and buff them and death could also benafit from more control and damage. Light is defensive in nature and could use 1 or 2 damaging spells.

Sadly MMM is a lot like WoW on so many levels it's not even funny. I will get yelled at but it's the truth.

- Make each Spell book strong enough to kill mages, and Good enough to solo natural creeps
- Remove many things that take up map data, or deal with too much mage PvP. The RPG part never got devolope because no one cares about PvE
- No more mult magic books. You can switch to off spec element so you could have a mix of roles*
- ROLES* the spell books need direction and roles. It is hard to give direction with spell books when you are fighting mages, soloing, doing burst damage, and dealing with RPG, killing mobs, and using team work. it is pure chaos.

If you don't want this to be like wow ( i don't either ) you need to start making some areas of the game to fill. People Love to do Mage wars. So then you could shut off the RPG and creep part BUT BUT that would make it more like DotA. DotA has no PvE RPG. It is no short of a boxing arena PvP match.
Each spell book is like a type of class. It is hard to balance and work with, and the game it self has to flow evenly with the bread of the game. People love fighting with mages, so it seems PVP takes the cake.

Lastly the code it self. There has to be a way to simply the code so the map loads faster but War 3 probably has a slow crappy code system. Starcraft 2 probably has a better editor and this game blows War 3's editor. War 3's editor simply cannot handle a beautiful complex game like this. If RhY still owns the map LISTEN BUDDY. Take your most trusted friends and try to meet up at a game convention and see if you can fold it into a Live MMO or an actual game. Any how i wish you luck. (i my self am too postive to steal this map's idea. Rhy should try to make this map into a functional game. ) Goodluck.
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Coverzin
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PostSubject: Re: If nobody is going to fix the map....   Sun Nov 14, 2010 4:12 am

You're a little late, Zen; further, your ideas are unrealistic.
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Dragonheart91
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PostSubject: Re: If nobody is going to fix the map....   Sun Nov 14, 2010 12:18 pm

Hey Coverzin! Haven't seen you in a while... I didn't know you were still around here.
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kuro
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PostSubject: Re: If nobody is going to fix the map....   Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:40 pm

Anyone ever on bnet these days? :S
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Balnazzar[Bot]
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PostSubject: Re: If nobody is going to fix the map....   Sat Jan 08, 2011 6:54 pm

No, but join League of Legends. Razz

(USE THE link I gave (Check the archives), it gives me stuff if I recruit people. Very Happy)

P.S.: Yet another week without PC. =/ Just got it back a few hours ago.
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Armaneth
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PostSubject: Re: If nobody is going to fix the map....   Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:30 pm

Vindictus, SC2, Rift Beta, MineCraft... I haven't touched WC3 in atleast 6 months. I miss playing MM&M, to the point where I started designing(which is NOT developing) a new game based off of it for my Sim & Game Development curriculum...

It no longer resembles MM&M though. Even if someone made an MM&M clone on SC2, I probably wouldn't play it because of the overall setting.

Edit: Honestly if I were to do it I'd start from scratch instead of (perhaps futilely, perhaps not) trying to fix the broken version
Edit2: After thinking about it and looking around, I've found that it is possible to import models from WoW into SC2, so my statement of not playing an MMM clone on SC2 can be ignored if that's done properly. I'll even work on it myself once I learn how to work with the editor.
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SinisteRing
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PostSubject: Re: If nobody is going to fix the map....   Sat Jan 15, 2011 6:01 am

I'm also in the RIFT beta, currently as the strongest & best mage on the Seastone server and the best Guardian guild if not in the game than at least in the server. Be jealous.
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Balnazzar[Bot]
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PostSubject: Re: If nobody is going to fix the map....   Sat Jan 15, 2011 12:43 pm

I don't feel jealousy, but if I were to feel jealousy, it wouldn't be of that...
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Armaneth
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PostSubject: Re: If nobody is going to fix the map....   Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:32 pm

Why would I be jealous of someone that likes to show off their 1mm e-peen?
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FireNite
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PostSubject: :O MM&M   Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:06 am

Hey,

I really want to play MM&M. Some of you may remember me. If anyone is playing, or can tell me how to downgrade wc so I can play with them, let me know! If there are any updates on similar games or some sc2 map I have heard of...let me know! It's been too long!

Thanks Smile
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