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 Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up

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Dragonheart91
SinisteRing
Jay.J
ÐeathByCyanide
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Jay.J
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Jay.J


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PostSubject: Re: Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up   Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 EmptyThu Feb 11, 2010 1:09 am

It doesn't make you reliant, not a healthy relationship anyway. Both partners should be equally dependent on each other ideally. And you don't become defeated if (since you can die at the same time or something) once they're gone, you become weak for a moment and then live off of the good times and are more appreciative and less cynical of life, because you once had something. All though you fall, and the higher you were, the further you fall, you remember the place you once were and use that to endure the new shit storm.
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Dragonheart91
Godlike Sage
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Dragonheart91


Number of posts : 2358
Registration date : 2008-05-21

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Primary Move: Cursed Waves (pwned much?)

Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up   Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 EmptyThu Feb 11, 2010 3:14 am

Or, just be strong enough on your own to endure the shitstorm. I have no problem with a healthy relationship, and I agree that it can be very good. However, you should never need it. That's just personal weakness.
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Piddagoras
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Piddagoras


Number of posts : 592
Registration date : 2008-05-22
Age : 36
Location : California

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Primary Move: Cosines and Sines.

Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up   Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 EmptyThu Feb 11, 2010 5:25 am

Or being too far in denial (either idealistic or egotistic) to see the truth:

Dependence, by definition, is a weakness in any organism. Dragonheart is exaggerating the significance of the magnitude of emotional dependence that occurs within relationships. When a breakup occurs, you're not going to die over it, its an insubstantial weakness even in the worst cases of dependence (disregarding pre-existing emotional instability).

Relationships aren't economically worth it. You spend time and money on energy on something that is essentially superfluous. Our drive to find mates is entirely derived from our evolutionary background, because mating makes babies. Even from this perspective, most relationships do not end in children, so they're still emotional and possibly physical pleasurable in the entirety of their utility.

Basically I think this argument has become too heated and filled with delicious denial flavored QQ, so I'm attempting to end it by shooting both parties down and leaving with this message: If you want to have a relationship, have a relationship. Don't lie to yourself about it, wanting to have one isn't a weakness, and having one isn't worth it unless you manufacture reasons for it to be worth it. And there's nothing wrong with manufacturing reasons, just be aware that you could do more productive things, like harvesting food or making babies.
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ÐeathByCyanide
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ÐeathByCyanide


Number of posts : 524
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Primary Move: Combustion-

Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up   Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 EmptyThu Feb 11, 2010 10:05 am

This turned into a fun topic.
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Jay.J
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Jay.J


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Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up   Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 EmptyThu Feb 11, 2010 11:50 am

Pythagoras wrote:
Dependence, by definition, is a weakness in any organism. Dragonheart is exaggerating the significance of the magnitude of emotional dependence that occurs within relationships. When a breakup occurs, you're not going to die over it, its an insubstantial weakness even in the worst cases of dependence (disregarding pre-existing emotional instability).

It's not dependence though. It's like, something that makes you stronger but isn't required. Like a solider without a weapon or an accountant without a calculator. Neither of them are required, but having them sure makes shit better. When one becomes too invested in a relationship they may find they're unable to do anything without it, in which case it does become a weakness - but it doesn't have to be if you don't let it be. There are soldiers out there who can't do anything without a weapon and are incapable of fighting without one, but there are soldiers who can fight without one. In the same way, there are plenty of people who rely on someone and would be lost without them, but again plenty of people who have healthy relationships that are give and take - and if they weren't able to take anything anymore, would still be able to sustain themselves emotionally and physically.

Pythagoras wrote:
Relationships aren't economically worth it. You spend time and money on energy on something that is essentially superfluous. Our drive to find mates is entirely derived from our evolutionary background, because mating makes babies. Even from this perspective, most relationships do not end in children, so they're still emotional and possibly physical pleasurable in the entirety of their utility.
Superfluous: exceeding what is sufficient or necessary.

Sufficient or necessary for what? If you're saying survival, fine - I'll admit that. Happiness? Sure it might be more than necessary or sufficient - but the point is that it is more. To gain anything you do need to put in some amount of resources. So what's wrong with it being superfluous? You make it sound like a bad thing. Progression is based on needing and wanting more. Then there's the whole, need to carry out my gene pool thing.

Pythagoras wrote:
Basically I think this argument has become too heated and filled with delicious denial flavored QQ, so I'm attempting to end it by shooting both parties down and leaving with this message: If you want to have a relationship, have a relationship. Don't lie to yourself about it, wanting to have one isn't a weakness, and having one isn't worth it unless you manufacture reasons for it to be worth it. And there's nothing wrong with manufacturing reasons, just be aware that you could do more productive things, like harvesting food or making babies.

Salt? O, and you don't have to manufacture reasons to want to have a relationship. You have to manufacture ones to not have one. I'd argue, that it's an inherit property in all human beings (save those with ASPD or some other form of being a psycho/sociopath) to want a relationship. See Edward Deci, and Self-determination theory.
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Piddagoras
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Piddagoras


Number of posts : 592
Registration date : 2008-05-22
Age : 36
Location : California

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Primary Move: Cosines and Sines.

Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up   Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 EmptyThu Feb 11, 2010 3:52 pm

The reasons for it being "worth it" in a practical sense are manufactured. If you rationally analyze the cost-benefits of a relationship, this becomes clear. I didn't say you didn't have reasons to have one, in fact I produced the reasons you'd want to have one. I'm just saying that those are superfluous reasons that aren't technically outweighed by the costs (thus, not worth it), unless you're making babies.

DBC's case is an example of the dependence. Luckily for him, she repeatedly broke his heart a few times in the process, so he grew cold and ceased his giving of a damn, so the whole grief process went quite quickly. In other cases, the grief of loss could persist and become detrimental to overall productivity, including harvesting food and making babies. But even considering this, Dragonheart's point is exaggerated, and this dependence would be severely unlikely to lead to a fatal event for the organism involved, either through lack of productivity or a suicide event, so in terms of dependence it is not a significant factor.
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Jay.J
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PostSubject: Re: Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up   Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 EmptyThu Feb 11, 2010 9:20 pm

Can I see your cost/benefit analysis? Remember - it's assumed in an ideal relationship both partners are putting in equal amount of effort/time/resources etc. Or, if one is putting in more resources for example, the other is putting in more effort/time etc.

Anything you put in, you should be getting an equal or greater amount back. That's the whole point of any relationship. Whether it's with an opposite sex member, or same sex. The point of a relationship is mutual beneficence. That's the whole concept of family, or government or a team.
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Piddagoras
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Piddagoras


Number of posts : 592
Registration date : 2008-05-22
Age : 36
Location : California

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Primary Move: Cosines and Sines.

Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up   Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 EmptyThu Feb 11, 2010 11:35 pm

Due to entropy, it is actually impossible to get an equal or greater amount back.

You're not going to be convinced by my argument because my stance is too cold for you. You're determined to maintain that a relationship is worth it, so in effect, it is for you, because the utility of the self-satisfaction you get is higher than the potential utility of any other effort you could take part in alternatively.
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Dragonheart91
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Dragonheart91


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Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up   Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 EmptyFri Feb 12, 2010 12:36 am

The other reason I immediately asked someone out when I started at my new college was because I didn't want to get jaded. Now that I've met most of the people there and gotten to know them a bit, I really have no interest romantically. Valentines day is coming up and I don't even feel like I would be able to have an enjoyable evening with any of the girls I currently know if I did ask them out. Once I start to get to know someone and find their personality flaws it's always really disappointing.
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Jay.J
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Jay.J


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Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up   Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 EmptyFri Feb 12, 2010 5:32 am

Pythagoras wrote:
Due to entropy, it is actually impossible to get an equal or greater amount back.

I don't think you're using this in the right context.

I gave my examples of a family, a team, an organization, a company, an institution etc. being greater than the sum of its parts. A relationship works the same way. You've given me a scientific law, used IMO, the wrong way - and you didn't even explain it at that. I can say you put in $3 to buy something and sell it for $10, how did I put something in and get more back out?
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ÐeathByCyanide
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ÐeathByCyanide


Number of posts : 524
Registration date : 2008-05-21

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PostSubject: Re: Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up   Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 EmptyFri Feb 12, 2010 10:16 am

I was talking to her yesterday, and she thinks she has something wrong with her. For her entire life she has always gotten randomly upset for NO apparent reason. She'd be depressed, then be fine the next day. This is what's happening between us, she loves me but then a few hours later she doesn't want to be near me. They're really shifty moods, and I don't understand them. She's always upset about something, she thinks she has minor bi polar disorder.
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Jay.J
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Jay.J


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Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up   Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 EmptyFri Feb 12, 2010 12:45 pm

It wouldn't be bipolar unless you can sense a clear manic phase (Which you would definitely be able to tell). She probably doesn't have clinical depression either as it's long lasting (over a period of time), and you have the inability to be happy which she does from time to time (Be able to be happy).

It's merely teenage angst. Sorry, I don't think you can blame it on something else (At least not without an assessment)

Edit: I just came across this and thought it was very cold and cynical, and this was the first place that came to mind Razz. I figure most of you will enjoy this comic.

Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 Science_valentine
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ÐeathByCyanide
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ÐeathByCyanide


Number of posts : 524
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Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up   Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 EmptyFri Feb 12, 2010 5:37 pm

Jay.J wrote:
It wouldn't be bipolar unless you can sense a clear manic phase (Which you would definitely be able to tell). She probably doesn't have clinical depression either as it's long lasting (over a period of time), and you have the inability to be happy which she does from time to time (Be able to be happy).

It's merely teenage angst. Sorry, I don't think you can blame it on something else (At least not without an assessment)

Edit: I just came across this and thought it was very cold and cynical, and this was the first place that came to mind Razz. I figure most of you will enjoy this comic.

Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 Science_valentine

It's got to be something Jay. I wish you could see what it's like but sometimes it's just plain fucking ridiculous.
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Jay.J
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Jay.J


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PostSubject: Re: Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up   Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 EmptyFri Feb 12, 2010 11:50 pm

You need it to be something, but honestly - some girls are just like that. Again, seriously - girls at 13-17 are usually just...very difficult to deal with. I know I probably sound mean or whatever, but that's because you love her still and anyone talking shit about her you're going to get defensive but you're not objective.
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ÐeathByCyanide
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PostSubject: Re: Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up   Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 EmptyThu Feb 18, 2010 11:52 am

Yeah. I'm done with her, I told her to stay out of my life. She's not mature enough to handle a relationship, because the person shes with isn't the important part. It's their situation and whats around them, she displayed this quite nicely. She said she PUSHED me away because of the people I talked to, and it bothered her. I was "cool" with her ex and his friends, but we weren't actually friends. That bothered her a lot, it also bothered her that I couldn't drive her everywhere, because I don't have car. I thought she was a down to earth girl, but obviously not if she cares more about a person's situation than the one she's with. So she's dating some college kid now, I can't wait until everything hits her. She deserves whatever pain she gets throughout all of this. She also told me she wanted "change", that basically means she has low self-esteem (WHICH SHE REALLY DOES), and probably expects something new frequently to satisfy herself. Lame?

So shes basically sticking with him because hes older, drives her everywhere, and buys her things that make her feel better about herself. Talk about being selfish.

I might become one of those adults who think every relationship between teenagers will fail. They really do seem pointless now, except for a learning experience.
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Piddagoras
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Piddagoras


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Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up   Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 EmptyThu Feb 18, 2010 2:57 pm

Adult relationships tend to fail as well, don't feel too badly about it. People are vain and selfish and petty, in general. I'm particularly vain.
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Jay.J
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Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up   Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 EmptyThu Feb 18, 2010 3:50 pm

Pythagoras wrote:
I'm particularly vain.

I lol'd.

By the way, obviously you sound great from your perspective - but obviously you're not from hers. Remember that. For example - wishing bad upon a person or being unable to "wait until everything hits her" and you think she deserves that pain, because a relationship didn't work out with you? Ya - that makes you a saint Evil or Very Mad
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ÐeathByCyanide
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Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up   Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 EmptyThu Feb 18, 2010 11:13 pm

Jay.J wrote:
Pythagoras wrote:
I'm particularly vain.

I lol'd.

By the way, obviously you sound great from your perspective - but obviously you're not from hers. Remember that. For example - wishing bad upon a person or being unable to "wait until everything hits her" and you think she deserves that pain, because a relationship didn't work out with you? Ya - that makes you a saint Evil or Very Mad

I'm not wishing her pain, I'm just saying it's probably going to hit her soon. She needs to learn what things are really about, and not to be so shallow. I do think she deserves whatever pain she gets though, she cheated on me. There's NO excuse for cheating on someone, at least have the decency to breakup with them first.
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Jay.J
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PostSubject: Re: Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up   Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 EmptyFri Feb 19, 2010 12:20 am

Quote :
I can't wait until everything hits her. She deserves whatever pain she gets throughout all of this.

If you loved her still, you'd wish that she'd still be happy, with or without you and never wish that she'd be in any pain.

Glad to see you're over her.
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ÐeathByCyanide
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ÐeathByCyanide


Number of posts : 524
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Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up   Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 EmptyFri Feb 19, 2010 12:49 am

Jay.J wrote:
Quote :
I can't wait until everything hits her. She deserves whatever pain she gets throughout all of this.

If you loved her still, you'd wish that she'd still be happy, with or without you and never wish that she'd be in any pain.

Glad to see you're over her.

No one can love after that much hurt. Yeah I'm over her already, she made it easier by making me dislike her.
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Dragonheart91
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Dragonheart91


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Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up   Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 EmptyFri Feb 19, 2010 1:07 am

^^
Lies


No offense, but feelings have a tendency to seem like they are gone only to jump back at you at random times in the future. I once realized I still harbored feelings TWO YEARS later and suddenly had to deal with it again. If you REALLY care about someone, there is no such thing as being truly over them. Ever. You just incorporate it into your life experiences and move on.
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ÐeathByCyanide
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ÐeathByCyanide


Number of posts : 524
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Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up   Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 EmptyFri Feb 19, 2010 1:37 am

Dragonheart91 wrote:
^^
Lies


No offense, but feelings have a tendency to seem like they are gone only to jump back at you at random times in the future. I once realized I still harbored feelings TWO YEARS later and suddenly had to deal with it again. If you REALLY care about someone, there is no such thing as being truly over them. Ever. You just incorporate it into your life experiences and move on.


I disagree. Even since I got over depression I get over things very quickly. I'm usually always happy too, almost nothing upsets me. Two years? Doubtful, I might miss some of the times I had with her but I won't still like her.
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Dragonheart91
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Dragonheart91


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PostSubject: Re: Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up   Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 EmptyFri Feb 19, 2010 6:47 pm

"harboring feelings" =/= "still liking her" and you might not have to continue to deal it that much later, but this relationship will probably stay with you forever and effect your future interactions with other people.
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ÐeathByCyanide
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Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up   Proof that a woman can never be happy, nor make up - Page 5 EmptyFri Feb 19, 2010 9:47 pm

Dragonheart91 wrote:
"harboring feelings" =/= "still liking her" and you might not have to continue to deal it that much later, but this relationship will probably stay with you forever and effect your future interactions with other people.

Of course it will affect future relations. That's a given.
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