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Zync
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PostSubject: My Item Suggestion   Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:52 pm

Let me know what you guys think of my item idea, and please vote: The Boom
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Dragonheart91
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PostSubject: Re: My Item Suggestion   Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:15 pm

You have to be registered with a beta key to see that forum. Kinda douche imo.
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SinisteRing
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PostSubject: Re: My Item Suggestion   Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:14 pm


THE BOOM
________________________________________


Apprentice's Robe (450)
- 6 Intelligence
+

Neophytes Book (1000)
- 10 Intelligence
+

Recipe (800)

||


Boom (2250)
- 16 Intelligence
- The mana cost of all Magic and Superior Magic Type hero abilities is reduced by 14%
The Mana Cost Reduction of this item does not stack with itself, Hack and Boom, or Slash and Boom
see below for details
________________________________________



Looking around, I realized that there are 7 types of multi-stat enhancing items:

  • Strength and Agility (Hack and Slash)
  • Strength and Intelligence (Puzzle Box)
  • Agility and Intelligence (Nullfire Blade)
  • All 3 with Strength focus (Fortified Bracelet)
  • All 3 with Agility focus (Soulscream Ring, Geometer's Bane)
  • All 3 with Intelligence focus (Talisman of Exile, Nome's Wisdom, Totem of Kuldra, Codex, Harkon's Blade)
  • Equal of all 3 stats (Refreshing Ornament, Shield of the Five, Astroblade, Null Stone, Staff of the Master, Frostwolf's Skull, etc)



_____The first thing that caught my eye was the lack of All 3 with Strength focus items, which I hope will change soon (All 3 with Agility focus items seems limited too).

_____What this made me realize, is that there is a complete lack of well-rounded strength items. The only real ones are the Fortified Bracelet and the Hack and Slash. (Lets face it, I've never seen or thought of using the Puzzle Box with a Strength based hero.)

_____In addition, when I think about casters that require a strong Strength build (Pebbles, Behemoth, Jeraziah, even Kraken or Blacksmith) no good progressive Strength and Intelligence items come to mind. They all end up having to fall back on the Ring of Sorcery. I'm not insulting the Ring of Sorcery, it is a wonderful item. I just don't think it should be the only path to a good tough caster (i.e. its cost is low enough to still get good tough items).
_____I agree that there are other good items for tough casters (like the Frostfield Plate), however, I feel they take to long to get to due to the high cost of some of the pieces, preventing you from being a decent front line (melee) hero while you get them. I would really love to see a progressive option.

_____So I thought, what is an example of a great progressive item already in the game. The obvious answer was the Hack, Slash, and therefore the Hack and Slash. The obvious conclusion then was to create an Intelligence version of the Hack or Slash that also had some good non-stackable ability, worth the 800 cost of the recipe. Finally, you could fathom it being able to combine with the Hack or the Slash, to arrive at 3 new items, each helping to round out the overall style of the game's items while creating an item path different than the Ring of Sorcery.

_____And that is how I came to the idea of the BOOM! (Icon and name are of course subject to change.)


________________________________________

Hack and Boom (4500)
- 16 Strength
- 16 Intelligence
- 12 Damage
- Chance to apply Crippled to target (Same as Hack and Slash)
This item's chance to proc does not stack with itself, Hack, or Hack and Slash.
- The mana cost of all Magic and Superior Magic Type hero abilities is reduced by 16%
The Mana Cost Reduction of this item does not stack with itself, Boom, or Slash and Boom
________________________________________

Slash and Boom (4500)
- 16 Agility
- 16 Intelligence
- 15 Attack Speed
- 12% Movement Speed
This item's Movement Speed bonus does not stack with itself, Slash, or Hack and Slash.
- The mana cost of all Magic and Superior Magic Type hero abilities is reduced by 16%
The Mana Cost Reduction of this item does not stack with itself, Boom, or Slash and Boom
________________________________________



Please let me know what you guys think.

  • Is this Mana Cost Reduction a good idea for HoN?
  • Is the 14% Mana Cost Reduction of the Boom good? (Keep in mind heroes like Pyromancer and Witch Slayer when you consider this one.)
  • Should the Mana Cost Reduction affect Physical Type hero abilities as well? (My original idea was Magic and Superior Magic Types only.)
  • Is the increase from 14% to 16% Mana Cost Reduction in the Hack and Boom as well as the Slash and Boom a good increase?
  • Is my whole desire for a progressive item reasonable? Do you agree? Is this the way to get it?
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PostSubject: Re: My Item Suggestion   Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:22 pm

I think it's a great item, and it definitely makes sense to me. Also, the resizing to make the post fit here on these forums was TERRIBLY tough, just FYI. People better comment or I'm gonna get mad.
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Jay.J
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PostSubject: Re: My Item Suggestion   Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:47 pm

So it's an intelligence version of S&Y? I don't know about HoN but S&Y in general is a subpar item, because it's a chance based slow.

I do like the idea of an item that reduces mana costs however.

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Zync
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PostSubject: Re: My Item Suggestion   Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:20 pm

It's meant to be the Intelligence version of the S or Y, not the S&Y. This means that it can be combined with either one. In DotA, the Y&B would be exactly the same as the above S&B, where DotA's S&B would be the same as the above H&B.
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PostSubject: Re: My Item Suggestion   Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:32 pm

I understood the concept. I'm more saying that it's (at least in DotA) to rarely - if ever to be upgraded.

The base item (The Boom) is good.

However, Sange (Hack) is a bad item because of the chance based maim, it however has the more likely needed stat for an intelligence hero (Strength). Strength heroes aren't likely to get it, because if they're caster heroes that would benefit, they won't benefit from Sange (Hack) as they rarely attack. No intelligence or strength heroes are really going to get it because casting and attacking conflict, and heroes that do have better item choices.

Yasha (Slash) is a good item on its own, but it's unlikely to be used in conjunction with The Boom because there are few, real caster agility heroes, that need the reduced mana. Intelligence heroes aren't likely to need Yasha (Slash) either because it's an attacking item.

Basically the upgrades are flawed because Hack & Slash are attack oriented items where as The Boom is caster oriented and making a "versatile" item like this will merely end up being unused. Like I said, the basic item (The Boom) is good - but the upgrade could be better made to be a well rounded caster/hybrid item (Like necromination).

Though I could be totally off base if HoN is a lot more different from DotA than I think it is.

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Zync
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PostSubject: Re: My Item Suggestion   Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:15 pm

I do think that HoN is that different than DotA, but the gameplay speed of HoN is about double that of DotA's. (In HoN, the Portal Key [Blink Dagger] is a common item for heroes like Pyromancer [Luna] because of this need for speed.)

But like my post says, it is meant to be a progressive item for dynamic support heroes like Pebbles (almost identical to Tiny) or Blacksmith (is identical to Ogre Magi), who need to be good casters but still must stand on the front line to be truly effective (thereby needing to be tougher or faster, depending on your playing style).

You are right however, it's not meant to be a focus item, but a rounded one. The game doesn't need more polar items, but more versatile ones in my opinion. (HoN has started to do that by adding items like the Major Totem [+4 to all stats] and using it in various ways.)
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PostSubject: Re: My Item Suggestion   Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:20 pm

Fun item with a unique ability, but I don't know enough about the HoN meta to comment further.
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PostSubject: Re: My Item Suggestion   Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:33 pm

Why wouldn't I get The Boom, and say BoT recipe if I wanted speed, or a Vitality booster + Bracer if I needed the health.

My main problem with the item is that no hero is going to need to be caster like, and attack enough to make use of the maim, or make use of the agility.

For Tiny or Ogre, why wouldn't I ever upgrade The Boom opposed to using the 2k on something else. Opportunity cost tells me to never upgrade it unless I already have a full item set (More or less). The upgrade isn't worth it, especially for the cost.

It has a good buildup, but nothing when you build it, unlike other items such as Aghs Scepter which have a good buildup, and a good outcome, or Guinsoo which have terrible buildup and a is game breaking when made. The upgrades (Slash & Boom + Hack & Boom) have a good buildup with nothing to gain from it.

Point: Either have JUST the boom, or if you want a well rounded end item - make it more fitting or useful. (Such as necromination).

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