Metal and Magic 6.5f

The last time I've actively played Metal and Magic was last year June-September (summer 2009). Only recently have I felt the urge to play it again after I was browsing through my maps and randomly saw "Metal and Magic" (this was the old 5.x series).

The next morning I searched the net for the latest map and came across Metal and Magic 6.5f (found on epicwar). After hosting it all Saturday long, I've had quite a bit of people take interest into the map as well. So, I have a few questions.

Is the map still being updated? I've noticed your last update was August, and it was only recently when you added the arena. As I understand the difficulty and the time needed in order to create custom maps I wouldn't want to force you to begin if you never desired to continue. However, if these may act as words of inspiration, you've begun an awesome map that implements a lot of interesting features and possibly maintains a large replay value because it's so hard to beat. The arena only adds to the excitement of future updates.

Are there any "secrets"? Like item or game play wise? I ask this because I recently stumbled upon an item dropped by the Lich (boot equip). I completed the set and it completely rocks. The only problem is if you don't have the item that randomly drops from the Lich, you're set would be a regular Ice Set instead of the Lich Set.

My last question. IF you were to continue updating, would you consider using bots to host the map? After hosting the map for quite a while I've noticed that many people are clueless about the map's existence. Some remembered and love it still while there are few that didn't like it as much. But, I noticed that the people who really enjoyed it often can't find my remake and end up forgetting about the map. I've ran into several people whom remembered me hosting the map (i was in a DotA game) and asked if i could host because they couldn't find the remake the second time. In any case, a bot would help increase popularity in the map, though I'm sure you're aware of this.

Overall, I'm still actively involved within the map and am grateful you've shown some interest in it as well (Aug 2009). If you wish to continue updating, you'll have my support. If there's anything I could do, I could lend a hand as well (though the most i could probably do is test for bugs).

It is a fun map and all of us here on the forum got majorly into it for a while. Zync seems to have mostly moved on from WC3, but we can wait for his response to see what he thinks about this.

And yes, we used to have bots hosting it until our interest waned somewhat. You can set-up your own hosting bot for it if you want. I believe version 6.5f is mostly stable with few major bugs or imbalances.

Dragonheart91 is basically correct. I've stopped playing WC3, and haven't been updating maps for a long time. Still, I have yet to uninstall the game or my editing software.

M&M was my favorite (yes, even over MM&M) and I did enjoy updating it because I modularized the map well enough that I could complete additions without getting too involved.

There aren't any real "secret" items. Towards the end of my development, I began adding drop items. All of the dropping items were unique (you couldn't get them from shops) and were put in there for two reasons. [1] I already had many shops and wasn't sure if I should add any more. [2] It added to re-playability, since you would have to fight certain waves (some of which change randomly depending on the game) to get them.
If I remember correctly, some drop on killing the target, some on damaging the target, some on getting hit by the target. All of which, the higher your level, the higher the chance of getting the drop. For example, the Necromancers drop a Shot that summons skeletons when you shoot corpses. I forget what it is called though.

I never got into the whole "hosting bot" thing, I'm a map maker, and want to play my maps. Popularity was never too important. If anything, popularity was bad, because you create fans with demands. Still if you'd like to use hosting bots, you have no objection from me.

Nonetheless, you do have me considering it. With work and school, I need to start programming (well scripting) for myself once again. If only I had the time, lol. Maybe I'll take a look at my old notes and see if I want to pick it back up.

If you do have any suggestions, items, creatures, etc, let me know. If good ideas surface, I'll be more likely to pick it up once more.

Dragonheart91, you said something about forum members "[getting] majorly into it". One suggestion I have in mind, though it doesn't relate to the actual map itself, is if we started to do private M&M games once again. I'm currently level 6x, near 70. It's difficult since its hard to find people to play with and you need at least 3 to play a decent game. What do you guys think?

As for suggestions. The drop feature is an amazing idea! One question though, does each level add 1% to drop rate? I.e. if you were level 1 it's a 1% chance and if you were a level 99 its a 99% chance. It definitely added to replay value since some of the items dropped are pretty awesome. The "Lich Set" I talked about in my last post is an extension to the "Ice Set" with the boots dropped from Lich's wave. Since most of the sets come in three parts the "upgraded" set idea (which includes a fully equipped four piece set) is an awesome idea to elaborate on.

However, the "Dragon Set" already has a four piece set (is this the only one?). I'm not sure if this is entirely true but since the Dragon Set is the most expensive it would be the best set to have? However, on the last wave (wave 99? I haven't even reached the last wave on easy mode... haha!! But because it's so difficult, it keeps me coming back for more) ... as i was saying, on the last wave maybe an extension to this set could maybe include a shot for the dragon. Like a "Dragon Spine Shot" or something... haha.

As for creatures, I think they're fine for right now. The farthest I've been was at the kobalds with a teleport stun after they've been hit. Which brings me to the amount of waves there are. I'm not really sure how many waves there are, but IF a team is able to accomplish all waves then maybe an endless mode option should be available? For logical reasons, maybe having type of creature for every wave in endless mode is the best choice. It is an "endless mode" and having different characters each time is a pain. Maybe cycling through the creatures could be useful. The main idea is to gradually increase the difficulty after each round completion (each wave is +1 level and +10stat stronger than the previous). I have no knowledge of map scripting but could there be a loop that adds this gradual difficulty in creatures spawned?

My last idea, is the release of an "uber island". Where monsters start at lvl 50 or something. Of coarse there should be new guns/shots/armor for survivability issues. However, it would only be ideal if our private forum game idea works. There would be no point in adding this island if none of us are at a fit level.

Custom skins? Maybe of your favorite character.. hahaha. Again I'm going to say, if we do get this forum M&M games to work, it would be fun to see Zync's sniper as Megaman or something, hahaha.

Well, that concludes my suggestions. Sorry if things seem out of place. After hearing from Zync himself I became ecstatic with ideas and had jotted them down before they dwell too far from me. I really envy your skills as a map editor, though I do find it rather reasonable that you may only add to the map as time permits. I understand the amount of time needed in order for a map to be developed/re-moded, which is why I'd also understand if you no longer had the need to continue updating. If we could gather all the old members together (me being a new member I understand I'll be the only oddball ^-^) and revive what was lost, hopefully it would give you motivation. From a fellow gamer, no matter what the game is true fun comes from playing with those you really miss.

cacahead wrote:

As for suggestions. The drop feature is an amazing idea! One question though, does each level add 1% to drop rate? I.e. if you were level 1 it's a 1% chance and if you were a level 99 its a 99% chance. It definitely added to replay value since some of the items dropped are pretty awesome. The "Lich Set" I talked about in my last post is an extension to the "Ice Set" with the boots dropped from Lich's wave. Since most of the sets come in three parts the "upgraded" set idea (which includes a fully equipped four piece set) is an awesome idea to elaborate on.

I don't want to give much detail away about the drops. But I will tell you, that there is some base drop percentage, say 1% for the Slow Shot. In this case, being level 99 will increase that chance to about 2%. If the base was 5%, then about 10% for a level 99.

I added the Lich Set because I liked the Ice Set, but it was a simple, more "early-game" set. So I added the Dirt of the Crypt item to make it more likely to be the final set a Gunner uses. I will more than likely continue this idea, as well as make full dropping sets and other such items.

cacahead wrote:

However, the "Dragon Set" already has a four piece set (is this the only one?). I'm not sure if this is entirely true but since the Dragon Set is the most expensive it would be the best set to have? However, on the last wave (wave 99? I haven't even reached the last wave on easy mode... haha!! But because it's so difficult, it keeps me coming back for more) ... as i was saying, on the last wave maybe an extension to this set could maybe include a shot for the dragon. Like a "Dragon Spine Shot" or something... haha.

The Dragon Set is very powerful, but it's up to the playing style you wish to use. My favorite is Stamina builds (like the Fighter or Minotaur Set), with powerful single target Shot (like Blood Shot). I also enjoy the High Elven Set, as well as Mana Shield tankers. In the end, I will try to make multiple Sets have equal strength. The Dragon Set is great, but try to put together a team of them, and you'll see you can't win with only them.

cacahead wrote:

As for creatures, I think they're fine for right now. The farthest I've been was at the kobalds with a teleport stun after they've been hit. Which brings me to the amount of waves there are. I'm not really sure how many waves there are, but IF a team is able to accomplish all waves then maybe an endless mode option should be available? For logical reasons, maybe having type of creature for every wave in endless mode is the best choice. It is an "endless mode" and having different characters each time is a pain. Maybe cycling through the creatures could be useful. The main idea is to gradually increase the difficulty after each round completion (each wave is +1 level and +10stat stronger than the previous). I have no knowledge of map scripting but could there be a loop that adds this gradual difficulty in creatures spawned?

My last idea, is the release of an "uber island". Where monsters start at lvl 50 or something. Of coarse there should be new guns/shots/armor for survivability issues. However, it would only be ideal if our private forum game idea works. There would be no point in adding this island if none of us are at a fit level.

Currently, there are about 30 levels, the last one being the level I would use if I ever achomplished the goal of having 99 levels, the Infernal spawns. Really I wanted to have multiple trees for spawns, making each game unique. So I never got past 30. If you beat the Infernals on -hm AND -hc, then send me a replay, and I will get on to expanding the game.

If you're fed up with the smaller levels (you have your set and would like to go for a "win"/Kill Infernals), there is a -skip # command, which skips you levels ahead. I don't plan on making an additional Defense mode.

NOTE: -hm, -hc, -skip #, etc are explained in screen text to the host on the start of the map.

cacahead wrote:

Custom skins? Maybe of your favorite character.. hahaha. Again I'm going to say, if we do get this forum M&M games to work, it would be fun to see Zync's sniper as Megaman or something, hahaha.

I've never cared much for fancy graphics. That with the desire to keep the load-time of the map minimal, I've purposefully did not add much custom material. Remember, you always have the -color command if things seem dull, but it is the WC3 engine, the great graphics are not included in the package.