New Guns

The current guns we have a pretty bland. We have a set of progressing standard guns, two progressing multi-shot guns, and a couple of Sniping style guns.

How about some rapid fire guns. The trick to these would be managing the extreme mana cost, but if you could do it they would be very powerful. I was thinking an SMG and a Machinegun.


SMG: +30 Power, 600 range, +50% regeneration, Ability: Fire a burst of 3-5 shots. (There is a .15 second delay between each shot, you could keep moving while it shot and the shots would keep firing towards the targeted point. Also, they would spray a bit.) This ability would have a large mana cost, something like 400%

Machinegun: +60 Power, 800 range, +60% regeneration, Ability: Continuously fire at the targeted point for 3 seconds or until your mana is depleted. Each shot uses 120% of the normal mana cost. (.2 seconds between each shot, and they spray a little bit so their accuracy isn't perfect.)

Gatling Gun: +80 Power, 800 range, +75% regeneration, Ability: Continuously fire at the targeted point with reduced damage. Speed of fire is increased rapidly as you continue to shoot. Firing will continue until another order is given or your mana is depleted. (Starts at one shot every .4 seconds and speeds up to a maximum of a shot every .05 seconds. They spray a little bit just like the other rapid fire guns.) Damage is 75% of normal, and each shot uses 75% of the normal mana.


Not necessarily good examples, but the point is to make a gun which excels on a mage which high Essence, but who still needs alot of Power for their damage. (Unless they are using Locust, which would probably pwn.) You could also do it this way:

Rapid Fire Musket: +85 Power, 750 range, +80% regeneration, Ability: The cooldown of your fire ability [A] is reduced by 90%.

That way they could just spam the shots themselves.

If you look at my earlier versions of M&M, like Beta 3.x, then you will notice that all of the Guns have an extra stat called Type, and they all are Single Shot.

In my original plan, these types of rapid-firing guns were included. Once I got to playing it with multiple people however, I wasn't sure if such an implementation was a good idea. In my thought experiments it seemed to take much of the skill out of playing. Even more so than the Tribarrel does. ( i.e. "The Noob Stick" ) In addition, I did have the 2 gameplay modes -ff and -hc that will be included in the next release. In these modes, a real noob will end up getting pwned with these guns in existence, regardless if he is or is not using one.
For right now, such Gun concepts will remain out of the game. Further in, and once you guys have had some experience with the new modes, I will take a harder look at the idea as well as any arguments you have for the idea, and move on from there.

I do believe that having rapid fire guns would increase the effectiveness of any essence-based mage or even the essence-based sets (mage set). However, I realize that making such guns could possibly lagg the game, and so I'd also like to delay this implementation until a bit further.

Yes, the guns are bland right now... but the game mode is not? Doing the same waves over and over again? I'd much rather have some new game modes on high priority instead of some new guns.

Alright, but the guns right now are still boring as hell. You basically have 3 choices:

#1 Short range increased damage/aoe. (Tri-barrel)
#2 Mid-range good damage boost and regeneration. Generally the most balanced. (Master Rifle)
#3 Long-range and slow but powerful. (Master Sniper Rifle)

That's not alot of choice. And, since guns are less expensive than other things, you generally just ignore all the lower level guns anyway and go straight for the one you want. You don't have to use THIS idea, but SOMETHING to make guns interesting would be nice. Maybe a Lifesteal gun? Or one that pierced through the first target? Who knows, just anything to make guns interesting again.

Guns are "how something is fired" while Shots are "what is fired."

There will be a piercing Shot added to next release ( more of a test than anything ) and Vampire Orb gives you the life drain you are looking for ( try it out with the Spiked Set ). You're first post had good suggestions, but life steal and piercing effects are part of the Shot not the Gun.

I know, I just want to find a use for guns. There are other abilities they could give I'm sure. Here's an example: Overcharge. It makes you charge for 1-2ish seconds before firing, and takes 200% mana, but doubles or triples or whatever the damage of the shot. There are any number of things like that which I'm sure I could think of if you actually wanted ideas.


Right now you might as well remove all the guns besides the starting gun and those 3. MAYBE leave the flare gun, but I've heard nothing but annoyance from people who "wasted" their money on it. (Maybe it will be useful later if we don't have as good of view or if there is an enemy that inflicts fog of war or something.)

Orbit Gun
Type Shot - Creates a shot that will orbit you for 3 seconds, the mana cost for this shot is reduced by 10%.

Artillery Gun
Type Shot - At the expense of a 50% increase of mana cost, the bullet fired will arch over units and will deal impact damage when it lands. If the shot has no AoE damage, it will gain an AoE of 100. The damage dealt this way will only deal 75% of the original shot's damage.

Water Gun
Type Shot - "Pump" your water gun to increase the damage of your next shot. This gun's power starts at 70% and can reach up to 210%. Each pump adds 20% damage. Pumping costs mana and has a 1 second cooldown.

other gun ideas:

-flamethrower: fast, channeled mana drain

-hydroblaster: shoots a small "crushing wave" style shot, damaging all it touches

-mortar cannon: slow, arc'd splash damage

-photon cannon: blasts light which slows and blinds, medium range

-pistol: shoots bullets at a fast rate for little mana. Has a chance to headshot and can cause a bit of bleed damage.

-sniper rifle: piercing, possibility of hitting person in back, and can cause bleeding and headshots

-particle blaster: think sniper rifle, but better, can hit person behind/headshot them/make them bleed

-ph34rshot: units within a 250 AoE of the hit target will recieve the "fear" buff, making them lose armor, attack points, and take slightly more spell damage.

-lightning cannon: shoots tracer shots. Along the way to the targetted point, if the tracer touches a unit, it will call a bolt of lightning from the sky.

-thunder cannon: same thing as the lightning cannon, but it causes thunderclaps along with the lightning bolts.

-zephyrgun: shoots a tight ball of air. Upon contact, it bursts into a flurry of razor winds, creating sever bleed damage in an area. While flying, before bursting, the zephyr shot slows nearby enemies by 15%.


I just realized: guns are different from shots...? hm.

Oh, and, lol @ water gun (see above) very good idea.

the mortar giving bullets an arc and some aoe would be nice
and for the sniper it would be fun if it pierced 1unit every 50 power in a straight line

Yes i read this...it just doesn't make much sense.... in my opinion...no offense..

Think this through in terms of playability.

Who is really gonna sit for almost 10 seconds in 1 spot just to shoot 1-2 bullets?? Unless you are using fireball shot to deal some good AOE, you will only kill 2-4 creeps (depending on shot). Does that make sense to you?? who cares if the range gets increased or power get increased for set up time. The problem is you will not be able to kill a swarm of creeps like this.

Isn't the basis of this game to kill a bunch of creeps??? So obviously the shots that have AOE will triumph all other shots. In addition wouldn't the guns with fastest cool downs and extra shots like Shotgun, Tribarrel and Greater barrel triumph just due to outputting more projectiles at your enemy creeps.

Hence, the guns and shots need to be changed to kill more effectively, not less effectively.
The only way guns and shots will kill more effectively is by following my suggestions. (of course this is my opinion, take it with a grain of salt).

But on the basis of mass enemy creeps and needing AOE to kill, only AOE shots and fast shooting guns will succeed, and in 6.1 the same formula applies...not enough change to justify the use of sniper or master rifle, and i don't need to purchase either to know this, you can just look at the statistics of each item and figure how effective it will be at killing.

Speed as in cool down to shoot? if so, then yes EXCELLENT IDEA! I like it alot because it replicates what a real sniper would have to do in real life!

I think there should be some sort of turret or camper-type weapon, like go up the cliffs and snipe from there...

there needs to be some sort of advantage... in the real world, standing still/sitting down/zooming in/gaining height is good.


the main fault with metal&magic is that the arrow towers+2footmen die very fast.

Scyon wrote:

The only way guns and shots will kill more effectively is by following my suggestions.

Wow... Just wow... say goodbye to humility?

P.S.: Damn you Kuro, you took the time to post here but not to answer me.

kuro wrote:

there needs to be some sort of advantage... in the real world, standing still/sitting down/zooming in/gaining height is good.

If I wanted to make a mod that mimicked the "real world" than I would not be using the Warcraft3 engine.

kuro wrote:

the main fault with metal&magic is that the arrow towers+2footmen die very fast.

This is not the fault of the game, but of the players. Stop going DPS DPS DPS! My brother has devoted himself to be the "healer". Starting over again in Beta 6.1, not only does he keep the footmen alive, but there is not a single DPS Metacian that gets as much gold as he per round.

The flaw is in your philosophy.

Also BlackRyu.. there is a work around, from using Set up Mode to Normal mode, let me explain. It takes a couple seconds to set up, shoot some shots with Master Rifle, you are obviously not gonna kill the horde that is coming close to u and Uther. So what do u do?

In my opinion the time that it takes to go back to normal mode and run around would be too much, and on top of that you will still have a slow sniper rifle in your hand...I would just easily switch guns when im done with the Sniper, obviously switch to Tri-barrel and finish off the horde that is in front me. Also change my shot accordingly too if needed.

PS: I don't know how many people here use multiple guns or multiple shots when they play??

TO Zync, in 5.3 and 6.0 what shot and gun was ur brother using?? I will assume it was Divine Shot and Tri-Barrel. Regardless of what your brother wants to call himself, "Healer", he is a DPS healer. Here's my example:

My fav. setup for 6.0 is using, Element Set + Robe of the Magi + Tri-Barrel, I would then use 3 shots, Fireball, Divine and Rep. Shot. I have a lot of mana, mana regen, and a lot of power. Everyone thinks of me as being a healer just because I have Divine shot...I don't, I consider myself as an effective killing machine with a bonus ability to heal.

I would start off using Fireball shot, because of low mana cost, good AOE damage, and can take out swarms of enemies. Switch to Divine shot one i get hurt or Uther is hurt. After round heal everything, then switch to Rep. Shot, to replenish everyone elses mana because they will be low without good mana regen. And then switch back to fireball shot.

Do you see my point?? It doesn't matter what title "healer" you put on my head, I will still out DPS anyone, out kill anyone, out heal anyone, and out replenish anyone.

I highly doubt your bother is gonna go Master Rifle and Divine shot once he hits lvl 99 and is rich, he will no doubtable pick up a Tri-barrel and own everything, because a healer build, generally means high amounts of mana, mana regen and decent power, which is an effective DPS build.

PS: Regarding the towers and guards, the main reason why they die, is because we can't predict which side the creeps come from and we are all standing beside uther. Once we see where they come from we need to quickly move to kill the creeps. Problem is everyone uses Tri-barrel so u have to go in close, so regardless the tower and guards are gonna die, but who cares really.

In addition if the guards were any stronger, noobs would have no incentive of actually firing at the creeps with their crappy gear, just let the guards do it lol. In my honest opinion the guards and tower thing is NOT an issue.

I'm not concerned about DPS.

I love the heals.

It's just that the towers die a bit... fast... at times.

If my memory serves, there is no way to heal the tower. So unless you can aggro the creeps/kill them very fast, the tower will die very quickly.

I totally agree with you Kuro, the issue is more that its up to the player to quickly get to that side and kill the creeps. In which most cases you can't do that because you don't know where they spawn.

The only suggest i can bring, is increase the HP of the Tower and Guards so that players would have enough time to react and protect them, otherwise the tower/guards will prematurely die.

Maybe some kind of 100hp heal to the towers at the end of rounds?

Scyon wrote:

TO Zync, in 5.3 and 6.0 what shot and gun was ur brother using?? I will assume it was Divine Shot and Tri-Barrel. Regardless of what your brother wants to call himself, "Healer", he is a DPS healer.

He was using the TriBarrel, however, he was simply using Holy Shot. Divine Shot takes too much mana to be efficient. You can't maintain good healing using Divine Shot because of its high mana cost and lager collision radius. Units still die. Granted, he's basically a pro-gamer type, and knows how to get the Holy Shot to the unit taking damage. But we would get to the Lich level before we'd loose the first tower ( this was in Beta 6.0 ).

It sounds like you're trying to replace skill with "safety" builds. You can't aim the efficient single Shots so you go large AoE. But especially as I expand the game to where I envision it to be, you're NEVER going to be able to protect the paladin or even yourselves. I dare you to try the game in -ff or -hc and see what happens with your praised Divine Shot ...

I do agree with divine shot takes too much mana to be efficient, but if you use Element Set + Robe of the Magi, you will find that you can sustain a lengthy period of shooting with divine shot (aka healer). Of course being lvl 99, at low levels with no gear...it's a non issue.

As for -ff and -hc, well neither of these game modes were explained in detail as to what they were, so i never tried these, so I guess i just play the Regular mode of Metal and Magic (w/e that's called).

I personally don't care about the gaurds dying or towers dying, but just for noobs, lvl 1 Metacians they will need them to be slightly stronger to stay in the game otherwise Uther may get rushed a little pre-maturely. But really early game..who cares, just keep leveling and then soon enough the dragons will own Uther lol.

It's one of those little things that make games good, it's not so much about it's importance, IMO.