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Reset Code?
By the next release
33%
 33% [ 3 ]
Once you get a bug-free version
44%
 44% [ 4 ]
Reset when summer comes
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Wait for v1.0
22%
 22% [ 2 ]
Never reset the code
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 9
 

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Zync
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PostSubject: Map Protection   Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:48 pm

Recently I have learned that Beta 4.6 was hacked, and thereby, could have easily been used to generate hacked codes.

Vexorian's map optimizer is a great way to protect the map, but it doesn't do a complete job. I was wondering what other techniques people know of to protect the map ( if any ) and when ( if ever before the "official release" ) should I reset the save code?
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Rhys
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PostSubject: Re: Map Protection   Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:55 pm

I use the Map optimizer from vex personally, destroys any ability to open it in a World Editor from that moment on.


hacking into a map could have been done by many things but if your using the optimizer you say you are I imagine that it was some other way of hacking then someone intentionally spending the time to hack m&m. Could have been someone just figured out the bit string and told a few people, or perhaps you or sin ran a test run with an unprotected map unknowingly. Who knows, point being it may not be the optimizer failing that created the hacked Beta4.6

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Zync
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PostSubject: Re: Map Protection   Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:09 pm

Actually, I dled it, and the entire script had been reduced the a single trigger and a couple of main functions. So it was "de-compiling". ( At the top of the single script was even reference and link to the application that did it. )

I was just wondering if there was some way to say, override all GUI triggers if the map is ever re-opened ( like saving some kind of false GUI database ). Then you could do something like set some global variable using a GUI trig, and then call that GUI trigger within the Jass that compares the values for "certainty". If this was possible ( to then rewrite GUI trigs upon reopening the map ) then this function would no longer exist. This is probably a horrible and non-functioning example, I'm just making it up on the spot. But basically I'm looking for some sort of trick to prevent this kind of "de-compiling".
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Dragonheart91
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PostSubject: Re: Map Protection   Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:15 pm

The first people to hack your map were SinisteRing and Bartimeus. They did so and leveled to 99 weeks ago.

It's really hard to totally prevent hackers. But really, why try? People will always cheat themselves, and there isn't much you can do to stop them. As long as they don't ruin the game experience for the rest of us, what's the harm?
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Zync
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PostSubject: Re: Map Protection   Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:29 pm

Well I figured it was someone on these forums, because the only place that hacked map has been hosted is on USEast, lol.

And no, I don't plan on putting a lot of effort into it. But still, if anyone knows I'd like to hear about it too. Many of my maps are save/load, and those are always more prone to hacking than others.
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SinisteRing
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PostSubject: Re: Map Protection   Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:38 pm

Dragonheart91 wrote:
The first people to hack your map were SinisteRing and Bartimeus. They did so and leveled to 99 weeks ago.
1. I didn't hack the map.
2. I have about 30 replays to prove it, showing the progression of my character. I'll post all of them up if you want.
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Zync
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PostSubject: Re: Map Protection   Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:49 pm

SinisteRing wrote:
Dragonheart91 wrote:
The first people to hack your map were SinisteRing and Bartimeus. They did so and leveled to 99 weeks ago.
1. I didn't hack the map.
2. I have about 30 replays to prove it, showing the progression of my character. I'll post all of them up if you want.
I'm not pointing my finger at anyone. I don't mind ( to whomever did it ) because I knew someone would do it, lol.

This is more about the resetting of the code. Feel free to argue your point in the poll.
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Dragonheart91
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PostSubject: Re: Map Protection   Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:54 pm

I don't think they spread it, I think that was a different set of "cheaters". And no, SinisteRing doesn't actually do the cheating. But he did admit to me that he used the cheated map to go from level 70ish to somewhere in the 90s. (And that's how he got such an ungodly amount of gold too I assume.)
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Piddagoras
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PostSubject: Re: Map Protection   Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:09 pm

From your description of the map de-protection results I would imagine the culprit used xdep, which (as far as code is concerned) just takes the .j file and writes it all into a single custom text trigger.

You could falsify the trigger data, but saving a map with NewGen does that in of itself. The triggers dont match the actual code in the .j file because of the vJASS pre-processing.

There is no way to actually protect a map. The act itself is impossible. There are tricks and things you can do to make it more of a hassle to crack it open and make changes, but anyone who has the map file has access to the same code that you do, and they have the same control over it as well.

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Bartimaeus
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PostSubject: Re: Map Protection   Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:21 pm

Zync wrote:
SinisteRing wrote:
Dragonheart91 wrote:
The first people to hack your map were SinisteRing and Bartimeus. They did so and leveled to 99 weeks ago.
1. I didn't hack the map.
2. I have about 30 replays to prove it, showing the progression of my character. I'll post all of them up if you want.
I'm not pointing my finger at anyone. I don't mind ( to whomever did it ) because I knew someone would do it, lol.

This is more about the resetting of the code. Feel free to argue your point in the poll.

He didn't cheat the map because he was unable to, and made me give it to him.

lol!

Anyways, I'm probably the guy that cheated it, but I only gave it to Sinister, and didn't spread it, or even post it at wc3edit.net, which is something I would normally do. Only reason I did it, is because I was sick of Sinister stealing all my kills with his bloody triple-shot fireblast, and I couldn't be seen with, "basic" gear.

(edit)
Rhys wrote:
I use the Map optimizer from vex personally, destroys any ability to open it in a World Editor from that moment on.


hacking into a map could have been done by many things but if your using the optimizer you say you are I imagine that it was some other way of hacking then someone intentionally spending the time to hack m&m. Could have been someone just figured out the bit string and told a few people, or perhaps you or sin ran a test run with an unprotected map unknowingly. Who knows, point being it may not be the optimizer failing that created the hacked Beta4.6

cheating*, cheating*, cheating*, cheating*, and cheating*. All I did was put in a simple cheat pack, and change the DisableTrigger (True_Save) or something into EnableTrigger. Also, I told Sinister to tell you how I cheated it, but he refused to tell you about it, and I didn't want to, because I didn't personally know you. But might as well, now.
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Rhys
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PostSubject: Re: Map Protection   Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:07 pm

rabbit so basically all that can truly be done is to admit that hacks will occur and prevent abusing of the hacks as much as possible.

bounce Applying Max Caps to everything automatically does this because even though they can get to max without the hassle of grinding for it they still can not gain any actual advantage in the long term over the other players. The first 4-5 games with a hacked player would suck no doubt but in the long run everyone would catch up.

Shocked Which brings up the whole save/load system in general as a method for gaming in wc3. It sucks. Plain and simple. It opens up the doors for anyone that likes the game to think for a moment about how to abuse the system and crack it. The only true issue here is that some people do not know how to do this which makes it unfair and labeled as a cheat. Also Save/Load features inherently create a off balanced game. No matter how hard you try or how many band aid nub shield fixes you add onto the system, its still horribly in the favor of whoever has played more games or has reached max stats first, which makes the game suck for any opposing player.

scratch In the end i guess this doesn't actually help the specific question you had but who knows maybe you'll rethink the whole save/load feature in general and save yourself some hassle.

cheers

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Zync
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PostSubject: Re: Map Protection   Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:45 pm

Bartimaeus wrote:
Only reason I did it, is because I was sick of Sinister stealing all my kills with his bloody triple-shot fireblast, and I couldn't be seen with, "basic" gear.
The one thing you can remember is that kills don't matter as much as you think when it comes to gold. If you are dealing say, 200 damage on attack, than you get more gold for dealing full damage than you do by killing a target with less than 100 health.

The game does a good job of giving gold for what you contribute to the defense. The same goes for healing. Healing 100 health is equal in gold to one kill.

One of the things I love so much about the map concepts is its very fair distribution of gold. True, a Power Metacian is going to do well with AoE destruction, but the Stamina Metacian gets extra gold for the tanking. Healers get gold for healing, and those using single target shots gets extra gold for finishing the kill ( while the AoE gets their gold more from the damage ).

In the next release ( should come some time this weekend ) I am adding modes of gameplay, which will drastically change the dynamics of the game, ( when those modes are active of course ) severely increasing the difficulty as well as increasing the need for disables and tank builds. It will be neat to see what you guys think.
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HolyNeko
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PostSubject: Re: Map Protection   Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:57 am

okay we really need a reset =/ when guns go up over 2000% increase (not an exact guestimate) to where people load in old versions to buy guns hella cheaper then you need a reset =/
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Zync
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PostSubject: Re: Map Protection   Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:39 am

HolyNeko wrote:
okay we really need a reset =/ when guns go up over 2000% increase (not an exact guestimate) to where people load in old versions to buy guns hella cheaper then you need a reset =/
Lol, ya, they always do that. I will reset the code here soon. Which would probably be at Beta 6.1, which should be released over the weekend.

The main reason I didn't, is because I needed to reset the code with the introduction of the AI I am currently working on. I need to make sure the AI is not too difficult for a group of level 1 Metacians.
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