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Zync
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PostSubject: Set Suggestions   Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:52 pm

While my next step is to begin to create good AI for the game, and the tactics of the AI should inspire more Sets, I wouldn't mind hearing what you guys would like to see. Feel free to give full detail. Here are the rules I've been notably following:
- All Sets must take up at least 3 slots from Garment/Armor/Gloves/Boots
- Each set should have some kind of focus (i.e. it's Set ability) that is unique
- Try to make sure no single set is the "best"
- Items/Sets that grant Power bonuses should be more costly and limited than Items/Sets that grant bonuses to Stamina or Essence since Power is granted by Guns.
That's the just of it.

For myself, I usually go the the Hive and look through Icons posted ( or just look through in-game icons ) for inspiration since all of my items revolve around Icons
I warn you that I will be picky, and that no sort of knock-back abilities will be added. Nevertheless, feel free to tell me what I forgot to put in my game, because I do that a lot!
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SinisteRing
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PostSubject: Re: Set Suggestions   Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:43 pm

I'll give this a go... I'm not doing any of the "specific" stats on any of these items, I'm putting the ideas out for you to toss around and if you use them, you should be the one to balance their stats and abilities into the game. First up, I believe you completely forgot about illusions in your map, which are extremely fun in many ways. This would be my take on what the set might do:

Illusion Set


Note: I'm basing this set off of a new shot that I was idealizing... the Illusion Shot:

Illusion Shot
Mana Cost: Medium
Effect: Would shoot a bullet at the target location, after your shot reaches its end, it creates an illusionary rifleman who has an auto attack equal to your power, health equal to your stamina, and attack speed based on your essence. Lasts for 3 seconds or something really low like that.

Armor of Illusion
Stats: Primarily revolving around essence and mana.
Special Ability: Allows you to target any enemy unit and swap positions with that unit.

Illusionist Gloves
Stats: Primarily revolving around power.
Special Ability: Splits the Metacian, creating more of himself based on Essence. The illusions are then high-priority targets for the enemies, yet disappear very quickly.

Boots of Scatter
Stats: Primarily revolving around stamina and health.
Special Ability: Escape ability that sends the Metacian in 8 different directions (up, down, left, right, and diagonals) for 600 range. All except one become an illusion that disappear after 1.5 seconds, where the real Metacian's location is chosen randomly out of the possible eight.

SET BONUS
Stats: Based on giving stats equally, sort of similar to the Royal Set.
Special Ability: Creates 2 illusions with the Illusionary Shot instead of only one. Besides that, the Metacian is also able to split himself into an illusion similar to the Illusionary Shot's with a normal ability.

I also feel I need to create a set based off of mana that truly fits a role that's good for the game. Overall, I believe Ice represents mana quite nicely.

Ice Set


Ice Boots
Stats: Primarily revolving around pure essence.
Special Ability: Allows you to "Ice Slide", such as the skill I made in Mages Magic & Mayhem. Was a fun skill, and I believe that it'd be just as fun in Metal & Magic, especially with a stronger algorithm and the allowance to shoot during that time.

Ice Armor
Stats: Primarily revolving around essence and mana.
Special Ability: Gives the passive ability to slow melee attackers.

Ice Gloves
Stats: Primarily revolving around pure essence.
Special Ability: Allows you to freeze a target enemy in place for a short amount of time. Also increases damage done by an Ice Shot or Frost Nova Shot by a decent amount.

SET BONUS
Stats: Based on giving a ton of essence.
Special Ability: Allows you to cast Blizzard in a target location, which deals a decent amount of damage in waves. Also increases the damage of Ice Shot and Frost Nova further than just the Gloves.
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Lagger09
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PostSubject: Re: Set Suggestions   Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:48 pm

What about a set built around increasing range?
Each gear piece adds some, and power and essence
Garment - Optic Helm
+2 Armor
+75 Range
+100 Sight Range
+8 Power
+3 Stamina
+6 Essence
+2 HP Regen
Gloves - Carpal Implants
+1 Armor
+50 Range
+75 Sight Range
+5 Power
+2 Stamina
+3 Essence
+20% Mana Regen
Boots - Roller Skates
+1 Armor
+25 Range
+30 Movement Speed
+50 Sight Range
+4 Power
+2 Essence
+1 HP Regen
+10% Mana Regen
Armor - Backpack Battery
+3 Armor
+50 Range
+75 Sight Range
+50% Mana Regen
+9 Power
+4 Essence
+3 Stamina
+1 HP Regen

Set Bonus
+100 Range
+150 Sight Range
+5 Power
+30% Mana Regen
+5 MS
+Ability - Farie Fire

The Numbers may be a bit too high, but the idea is to have a longrange build able to stay away from the fray and deal damage from afar

Have you considered including Guns/Shots in sets?
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Dragonheart91
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PostSubject: Re: Set Suggestions   Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:09 am

Nice posts Sinister. I'll probably read and comment later and maybe even suggest a set of my own. I just don't have much time right now.
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Zync
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PostSubject: Re: Set Suggestions   Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:55 am

Cool, I like these. They are definitely different that the things I generally think of.

My one question to you, is how much "critique" or "opinion of possibility" do you want from me? ( If any at all ) Because I don't want to stifle the things to you guys post yet I don't want to you to get excited over the Idea that your idea could be added if it isn't going to be.

So, you each ( as well as anyone else who posts ) should individually tell me what you want me to respond to, if any, cause I have no problem shutting up and letting you guys think independently of my thoughts.
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Dragonheart91
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PostSubject: Re: Set Suggestions   Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:07 am

If our posts aren't helping, you need to steer us in a new direction. Other than that, take what you like and ignore the rest. That's my opinion at least.


P.S. Lagger's set is one of the ideas I had initially. The triple shot gun is by far the most powerful with the only minor disadvantage of a low range. (And I suppose a slightly lower Power bonus compared to others.) So, by having a range increasing set you can REALLY pwn with it.
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SinisteRing
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PostSubject: Re: Set Suggestions   Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:20 pm

Dragonheart91 wrote:
If our posts aren't helping, you need to steer us in a new direction. Other than that, take what you like and ignore the rest.
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Zync
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PostSubject: Re: Set Suggestions   Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:40 pm

SinisteRing wrote:
Dragonheart91 wrote:
If our posts aren't helping, you need to steer us in a new direction. Other than that, take what you like and ignore the rest.
Just by thinking a little different you are "helping" because you help to inspire ideas. As long as you post about ideas you have for/about the map, you will accomplish this help. I just want to know if I should actively give feedback or let you guys do your own thing, and I think the best solution is to wait for you guys to ask me what you want me to respond to.
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Dragonheart91
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PostSubject: Re: Set Suggestions   Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:44 pm

Respond to all of the ideas in this thread.
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Zync
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PostSubject: Re: Set Suggestions   Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:20 pm

Dragonheart91 wrote:
Respond to all of the ideas in this thread.
You haven't posted any ideas yet. I'll let SinisteRing and Lagger09 ask me if they want any "constructive criticism" or not.
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Lagger09
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PostSubject: Re: Set Suggestions   Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:38 pm

Tell me what you think, Any critisism helps to imporve future suggestions. All my numbers are just for basic idea, and i have no idea how balanced any of it is, ut i use those mainly for concept. I agree w/ Dagon in tha ATM there is little to no reason to use the single shot rifles, as the damage output is much less than being able to shoot 3 at a time.

flare=/=triple shot
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SinisteRing
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PostSubject: Re: Set Suggestions   Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:02 pm

Criticize my post in any way you'd like. I can take it... and I'd really prefer to know if spending the time to create that was actually worth it. Very Happy
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Zync
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PostSubject: Re: Set Suggestions   Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:24 pm

Lagger09 wrote:
What about a set built around increasing range?
Each gear piece adds some, and power and essence
Garment - Optic Helm
+2 Armor
+75 Range
+100 Sight Range
+8 Power
+3 Stamina
+6 Essence
+2 HP Regen
Gloves - Carpal Implants
+1 Armor
+50 Range
+75 Sight Range
+5 Power
+2 Stamina
+3 Essence
+20% Mana Regen
Boots - Roller Skates
+1 Armor
+25 Range
+30 Movement Speed
+50 Sight Range
+4 Power
+2 Essence
+1 HP Regen
+10% Mana Regen
Armor - Backpack Battery
+3 Armor
+50 Range
+75 Sight Range
+50% Mana Regen
+9 Power
+4 Essence
+3 Stamina
+1 HP Regen

Set Bonus
+100 Range
+150 Sight Range
+5 Power
+30% Mana Regen
+5 MS
+Ability - Farie Fire

The Numbers may be a bit too high, but the idea is to have a longrange build able to stay away from the fray and deal damage from afar

Have you considered including Guns/Shots in sets?

I like the uniqueness of this suggestion, and made me wish I had a good "Roller Skates" icon, lol.

One issue that prevents me from implementing this set is the fact that it manipulates sight range which I have never been unable to figure out how to do without Upgrades, which can't be removed. ( If you remember from MM&M, the sight range after a Mage's death was always a bug and game-stopping issue ).

Another is that I didn't build in range increase into the item system, leaving it up to (mainly) the Gun with assistance from the Shot. I don't think I could balance range if I allowed items to manipulate range. Like you said, it would be great for the Tribarrel, and you're right. I fear, it would be far too great.

As a side not, all items ( thus far ) only grant one "additional" effect ( beyond some stat increase; health, mana, armor, sta, pow, ess, and movement speed ). A lot if your items have multiple extra effects that I thus far haven't accounted for. Don't get me wrong, it's not a restriction I listed because I don't believe it's a necessary one for balance, but it makes more work for me, lol. And it would take much thought upon adjusting the system like that. Sets have up to 4 additional effects beyond the stat increases, but items do not.
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Zync
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Primary Move: Karate Chop

PostSubject: Re: Set Suggestions   Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:31 pm

SinisteRing wrote:
Illusion Set


Note: I'm basing this set off of a new shot that I was idealizing... the Illusion Shot:

Illusion Shot
Mana Cost: Medium
Effect: Would shoot a bullet at the target location, after your shot reaches its end, it creates an illusionary rifleman who has an auto attack equal to your power, health equal to your stamina, and attack speed based on your essence. Lasts for 3 seconds or something really low like that.

Armor of Illusion
Stats: Primarily revolving around essence and mana.
Special Ability: Allows you to target any enemy unit and swap positions with that unit.

Illusionist Gloves
Stats: Primarily revolving around power.
Special Ability: Splits the Metacian, creating more of himself based on Essence. The illusions are then high-priority targets for the enemies, yet disappear very quickly.

Boots of Scatter
Stats: Primarily revolving around stamina and health.
Special Ability: Escape ability that sends the Metacian in 8 different directions (up, down, left, right, and diagonals) for 600 range. All except one become an illusion that disappear after 1.5 seconds, where the real Metacian's location is chosen randomly out of the possible eight.

SET BONUS
Stats: Based on giving stats equally, sort of similar to the Royal Set.
Special Ability: Creates 2 illusions with the Illusionary Shot instead of only one. Besides that, the Metacian is also able to split himself into an illusion similar to the Illusionary Shot's with a normal ability.

I like this suggestion too. One drawback is that I already implemented an Illusion Shot for next version that works quite differently than the one you suggested. In essence, I don't care for the idea of making illusions of Metacians because they don't have natural attacks, which would require AI control I am not familiar with to make them have high-priority. So it deters me.
Nevertheless, Armor of Illusion is nice, and has a decent chance of being implemented.
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Zync
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Primary Move: Karate Chop

PostSubject: Re: Set Suggestions   Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:37 pm

SinisteRing wrote:
Ice Set


Ice Boots
Stats: Primarily revolving around pure essence.
Special Ability: Allows you to "Ice Slide", such as the skill I made in Mages Magic & Mayhem. Was a fun skill, and I believe that it'd be just as fun in Metal & Magic, especially with a stronger algorithm and the allowance to shoot during that time.

Ice Armor
Stats: Primarily revolving around essence and mana.
Special Ability: Gives the passive ability to slow melee attackers.

Ice Gloves
Stats: Primarily revolving around pure essence.
Special Ability: Allows you to freeze a target enemy in place for a short amount of time. Also increases damage done by an Ice Shot or Frost Nova Shot by a decent amount.

SET BONUS
Stats: Based on giving a ton of essence.
Special Ability: Allows you to cast Blizzard in a target location, which deals a decent amount of damage in waves. Also increases the damage of Ice Shot and Frost Nova further than just the Gloves.
This set is neat as well, however, the boots break one of my first rules about moving Heroes progressively.
Again, Ice Armor is nice, and has a chance to be put in.
While I like the freezing idea of Ice Gloves, I'm at a loss as to how to balance giving a Shot bonuses off of just a single item. I'll have to think about that one ( honestly I don't think it's ever crossed my mind ) but I doubt I would feel comfortable with the balance to include such a bonus.
Overall, the Set is nice, and I do like the overall set bonus you depict. In truth, I hadn't gone down the route of making Sets based on Elements, but you might be right; it could be time to start designing them.
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