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 Gear and [C] spells

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Dragonheart91
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PostSubject: Gear and [C] spells   Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:09 am

I don't think that Elemental Items should buff [C] spells. At all. This raises problems in a few elements which I hope you will point out to me.

Off the top of my head, this means that Wind would need some changes. I suggest switching Whirl Wind to [C] and Suffocation to [Z]. (If Whirl Wind is on [X] and I'm mistaken, then you can still make it work by just putting Vortex on [X].) I also think Whirl Wind as the ultimate should have a bit of a buff. Maybe another reduction of mana cost and/or increased range/damage.


If anyone disagrees with this, I can post my reasons for why I don't like gear buffing [C] spells when I'm more lucid in the morning. Also, I'm sure Jay can help with that too.
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DarkDjinni
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PostSubject: Re: Gear and [C] spells   Sat Jan 31, 2009 5:22 am

I like gear buffing C-Spells, it encourages people to not only use their Multi Book.
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diaster
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PostSubject: Re: Gear and [C] spells   Sat Jan 31, 2009 5:27 am

I also agree gear shouldn't buff c spells, and as for suffocate perhaps switch it and vortex? since vortex seems like it would build off suffocate since they both silence and one is aoe.
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Jay.J
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PostSubject: Re: Gear and [C] spells   Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:07 pm

I like Gear buffing [C] spells. Encourages single book usage over M-book usage (Which are already stronger books IMO).

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Dragonheart91
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PostSubject: Re: Gear and [C] spells   Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:25 pm

I think the [C] spell itself should be good enough to encourage use of the single book. Also, I've been thinking that the gear bonuses to spells have needed reworking for a while. The current ones are pretty random and focus on 1-2 strategies of a given element. It would be nice, (especially with the new gear) to have a gear piece to boost each spell with no redundancy. In other words, something might boost [Q] and [A] but no other gear piece would. So, you have to pick and choose your gear depending on what spells you want to boost.

Anyway, that system works out very well with gear boosting [Q] and [A], then [W] and [S], then [E] and [D], then [R] and [F], then [Z] and [X] or whatever else. Doing it in pairs seems easier is all I'm getting to, and the [C] spell also throws that off.


I suppose I lost my train of thought too, because I can't think of my good argument against gear boosting the [C] spells. In any case though, I think a system should be worked out and all the gear bonuses should be redone at some point. If that is to include boosts to the [C] spell, well I guess that's ok.


P.S. Here's an example. There are two sets of elemental gear now, so this works. One staff boosts [Z], the other staff boosts [X], the two armors boost [R]/[F], and [E]/[D], then the accessories boost [Q]/[A], and [W]/[S]. Finally, one of the boots would boost [C] and the other boot would give either ANOTHER buff to [C] or we could have a special ability on it or something. (Or, one of the staffs could boost [Z] and [X] and the other staff could boost [C]. Although that leaves me without any idea what kind of bonuses to put on the boots. We could do stuff like the Water accessory that doesn't directly buff any spells but rather provides some kind of passive bonus to almost everything you cast.)
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diaster
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PostSubject: Re: Gear and [C] spells   Sat Jan 31, 2009 2:06 pm

once all the M-spells are added I think the c spells should be buffed to match the power of M-spells, instead of making it so you have to buy gear to make them worth while. That or the double element thing needs to be done where you learn level 2 of the element and maybe all your spells go up a level? cause the way I see it now the single element books are a stepping stone until you can get M-books which are like the next level of magic.
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Dragonheart91
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PostSubject: Re: Gear and [C] spells   Sat Jan 31, 2009 2:14 pm

Single element books still definitely have uses though. It's always good to keep at least one of them in as a secondary book. For example, Water and Holy as a secondary book are almost always good for the times when your team needs 100% support or one of the unique skills that those books have. (Like Dispel or Blind)
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Jay.J
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PostSubject: Re: Gear and [C] spells   Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:27 pm

I kind of like Single books more than some M-books, but some M-books more than Singles...Like I think Ice book is better than Ice/Lightning, but that's better than a Lightning book. Maybe that's just because Lightning is meh right now. Besides Static, it doesn't have much going for it.

Back on topic: Until you come up with an actual reason for implementing [C] spells not being upgraded...I don't see why we should. I agree that they SHOULD start out strong, but if anything they should get stronger than some M-spells, or as strong as certain M-spells.

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diaster
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PostSubject: Re: Gear and [C] spells   Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:46 am

well dunno if this has changed, but if memory serves u can max out a single element by level 50, and it takes well after level 62 to master a m-book right? I mean if were going to have them equal strength should they have equal cost? Thus the double element thing. the double element spells might be stronger in base because they are upgraded further, but m-books will have combos not available to the double books to make up for the spell strength difference, since they have a much larger skill pool.
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Jay.J
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PostSubject: Re: Gear and [C] spells   Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:28 pm

I think the single elements synergyze fine amongst their own book, if not better than some M-books. A well set up Freeze, Freezing Orb, Icy Orb is pretty much a double kill. A well set up, Blink (Boots) Fissure, Skin, Earthquake is pretty much a double kill. Firebolt, Orb, Ball, Nova is also pretty much a double kill. Crack, Clap, Bolt, (Have TS on yourself) is pretty much a DK at least if they kill you with Static. I think the Single books are under estimated.

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diaster
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PostSubject: Re: Gear and [C] spells   Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:20 pm

I realize the single books have synergies, but in many cases the m-books (at least for wind) have quite a few more combos then the single book, and had to be nerfed because of their strength.
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Jay.J
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PostSubject: Re: Gear and [C] spells   Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:03 pm

True but that's because wind in itself doesn't synergyze that well with itself and does so better with others. Cyclone, Fissure, Vortex, Pop is far more deadly than anything Wind can do on it's own. With Invis....it was very lame, you have to admit Razz.

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Rhys
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PostSubject: Re: Gear and [C] spells   Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:43 pm

you should be able to max a single book somewhere between 45-50. However There have been multiple OverAll Gold increases in all modes which allows players to more easily gain SP if they decide to buy it point by point. Forget about ANNS mode which basically has gold flowing in non stop. If you where to purchase SP with all your gold in ANNS mode youd probably have a maxed MultiBook by level 50. I know I can max a Single book by 35 in a Anns and have some room to save up for the Mbook Spells by 35, I just did that last night in a test.
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PostSubject: Re: Gear and [C] spells   Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:48 pm

Rhys wrote:
you should be able to max a single book somewhere between 45-50. However There have been multiple OverAll Gold increases in all modes which allows players to more easily gain SP if they decide to buy it point by point. Forget about ANNS mode which basically has gold flowing in non stop. If you where to purchase SP with all your gold in ANNS mode youd probably have a maxed MultiBook by level 50. I know I can max a Single book by 35 in a Anns and have some room to save up for the Mbook Spells by 35, I just did that last night in a test.


wtf is -anns i can't find info on it >.>
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Rhys
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PostSubject: Re: Gear and [C] spells   Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:57 pm

Game Modes Combined


-AN = ALL NEW
-NS = NO SAVE

Combined together you gain the benefit of 8*EXP and 8*GOLD and 200%HARVEST.

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Walking_Death
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PostSubject: Re: Gear and [C] spells   Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:08 pm

Rhys wrote:
Game Modes Combined


-AN = ALL NEW
-NS = NO SAVE

Combined together you gain the benefit of 8*EXP and 8*GOLD and 200%HARVEST.

ooh. Meh. the part i like about mmm is the save because it makes me feel speshil :*(

lols. Either way, back on topic, the equipment that powers up certain spells is fine, and I think that all the mentioned spells in the equipment should be in the multispell books. I personally find that multispell books are just... not so effective. I find them to be like a camera-phone, which, as mentioned on the Daily Show, is just a crappy camera and a crappy phone.

I think that all passives should be included automatically into the multispell books, as well as an ultimate, in all of them. I'm sick of seeing stupid stuff like precision strike in the fire/lightning, and I think Unholy aura should be included in the dark/fire as that is a dark/fire/non wind mages only chance at having a halfway-to-decent movespeed, but that issue is for another topic....
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Jay.J
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PostSubject: Re: Gear and [C] spells   Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:10 pm

On the topic of Precision/Flaming they're both on the same slot so one of them has to be there....

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Rhys
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PostSubject: Re: Gear and [C] spells   Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:14 pm

I'm not opposed to making the Old Elemental Gear into a new Multi Elemental Gear where each gear piece actually buffs One Spell from Two Elements instead of Two Spells from One Element.


Of course that's a huge change and needs to be thought out for awhile before even considering it.

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Jay.J
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PostSubject: Re: Gear and [C] spells   Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:49 pm

I'm opposed to multi-element items for future records.

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Dragonheart91
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PostSubject: Re: Gear and [C] spells   Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:56 pm

Naw, I don't think the M-books need that kind of support. I am actually against multi-elemental gear. (Besides, you would need to make 56*4 gear pieces. Which obviously is impossible.)
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PostSubject: Re: Gear and [C] spells   Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:22 pm

certainly would be

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diaster
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PostSubject: Re: Gear and [C] spells   Sun Feb 01, 2009 8:11 pm

Well here is the thing, I'm not against equipment that buff a C spell, so much as I'm against it taking the place of something that would otherwise not. EX only wind armor you can buy buffs C spell. I'd have no problem w/ this if you could buy wind armor that buffs something else as well.
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