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What Is The Weakest Element?
Dark
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Earth
5%
 5% [ 1 ]
Fire
5%
 5% [ 1 ]
Holy
14%
 14% [ 3 ]
Ice
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Lightning
52%
 52% [ 11 ]
Water
10%
 10% [ 2 ]
Wind
14%
 14% [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 21
 

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Rhys
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PostSubject: The Weakest Element   Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:33 pm

- Vote Canceling Enabled

-This poll will be to determine the weakest element. This is for the new environment only, if you have not played through the newest version at least once then please do not vote.

-When You do vote please post with the element you voted for and a short or long description of why.

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Rhys
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PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:35 pm

Holy


I pick holy because its purely support. While its res ability is arguably the best ability in the game I feel that besides this one ability a Holy Mage has no reason to exist. I would like to eventually see the ability to heal towers removed which would further nerf the Holy Element. So In my opinion I feel Holy Sucks the Most now and will most certainly suck even more in the coming versions.

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PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:59 pm

Wow, that's tough.

Water still seems to not offer enough variety to me.

Holy has received alot of nerfs and using lately has seemed a bit underwhelming.

Earth still has a huge problem with mana regeneration and positioning. I haven't seen it much in the new version yet though.

Wind still needs at least 1-2 skills remade due to the fact that they are nearly useless. That brings it down a few notches, especially combined with the absolute lack of mana regeneration.

Lightning still isn't quite filling it's niche to me, and has one of the most useless skills in the game. I would like to see range bonuses to quite a few of it's moves and Thunderbolt buffed.

Fire has terrible ultimates other than Fire Orb. If you miss your stunlock, then your worthless.

Dark seems well balanced except that Raise Dead needs to be changed.

Ice seems well balanced at the moment. Ice Slide and Frostbite need remakes.
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PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:16 pm

Clearly not Holy. A holy mage basically wins the game for a team. I know I don't play much, but that much I know as general knowledge.

I voted Water due to the fact is all it does is give allies and yourself mana... and possibly tank... but Earth can do that just as well. YAY!...?

Water gives mana.
Holy gives health.

Health > Mana.
Holy > Water
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PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:38 pm

He said pretty clearly that you had to play the new version before voting. Water is buffed and Holy is nerfed. Try a -anns game with balanced teams and see what you find.
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PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:02 pm

I think either lightning or water is the weakest. lightning was a bit too easy because you could just point and click with lightning strike, but its nerf was a bit too harsh. i havent actually played a water before but ive heard people say it needs a buff so i guess that may be true. i voted lightning anyway.
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nosobi
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PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:35 am

lightning only has 3 active dmge spells which cant kill anyone who has more than 1500hp unless they kill you and it bolts them
and water... i think it wasnt meant for killing just like holy but still... revive is uber if a team has 2 holys with revive its an auto win
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PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:57 am

Wow, alot of people think Lightning is weak. Surprising.

Personally, I'm for Earth or Wind as the weakest. Things without any mana regeneration have trouble.
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Jay.J
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PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:05 pm

Told you all lightning didn't need the change to Lightning Strike...That's what did it. Also...lightning doesn't have regen either soo what are you talking about...?

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diaster
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PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:45 pm

Jay.J wrote:
Told you all lightning didn't need the change to Lightning Strike...That's what did it. Also...lightning doesn't have regen either soo what are you talking about...?
hey I agreed with you, btw did it end up getting some perk for it having to be aimed? And yes res is still rigged as fuck but no one listens here about that. I mean all that needs to be done to make it fair is kill the range on it, so people actually have a chance to stop it. I mean it has like the longest range of most spells in the game.
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PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:46 pm

The Almighty says:

Lightning and Wind are the weakest IMNSHO.

P.S.: I only posted to say that Jeff's icon and signature are funny as hell. lol!
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Rhys
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PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:06 pm

good point diaster on res.

I believe the trade off for lightning strike changing was a farther effective range of the spell combined with a needed nerf because it was to over powered before. Personally I hated the spell at first but i have grown to enjoy its necessary skill factor in using it.

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PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:32 pm

Well, it wasn't the spell itself that was overpowered so much as the combination with the rest of the element that led to doing an instantaneous 1500-1800 damage. (E.G. Enough to kill a mage before they have a chance to fight back.) And that it couldn't be dodged or evaded like similar combos from other elements.

I will agree that Lightning is a bit weak now. Thunderbolt is the spell that needs changing though in my opinion. (Maybe give it some ability to regenerate mana. For instance, it could have a mana stealing factor. 10% of the damage it deals could regenerate your mana for equal amount. Now I'm probably talking about a whole new spell though. Thundercloud maybe. Charges up and absorbs mana when mages near it cast spells and then gives that mana to the lightning mage and/or unleashes it in an aoe blast.)
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PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:38 pm

clearly lightning has been decided this round. I will be applying various buffs to the new gear that was installed a few versions back for the lightning element. After that version has been released this thread will be moved to the archives and a new one will start.

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PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:13 pm

I still say fix Thunderbolt and Lightning isn't too weak anymore.
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PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:27 pm

I don't think it's the spells themselves, but what the element as a whole provides. Like I've said before it's the element overall and it's role as a mage.

It's meant to fill the role of a carry mage (At least most people would agree). However just the make up of skills leaves it lacking as a killer. Lightning is supposed to be the element with the most power and the most reliance and effect from it, however that's not exactly true at least not anymore IMO.

Skill breakdown:

Non-Power needed spells - Purge, Crack, Taser, Elementals
Passives: Precision Strike, Static Charge, Force of Lightning
Nukes: Thunder Clap, Lightning Strike, Thunderbolt
Buffs: Thunder Storm

Just looking at the spells, for an element that's supposed to be a heavy nuker with power being it's focus - it's really only got 3 nukes, one of which is subpar. Granted both Static & Thunderstorm can act as nukes - they aren't direct nukes and work just as effectively on a support, if not better. Basically Lightning isn't sure what it wants to be, whether it wants to be a support hero or a carry hero, and either position it doesn't even rely on power as much as it should.

Cracks range can be modified with Power IMO. Slow Factor can be modified with power IMO. Taser damage can be modified with power IMO, as well as letting each tick of damage possible to trigger Precision Strike. Also - why is Force of Lightning 10 power, while every other stat modifier is +15? Either you're admitting that power is the best stat, or you're just not being fair to lightning.

O, and I don't think Lightning needs ALL of that, I just think that it needs to have a more defined role, and with that revolve around something. Unlike other elements like Dark, you can't go polar strength or something....Yet going polar power only helps so many spells.

Edit: That and it has the most mana for a [Q] spell, and doesn't have an effect added. If range = Slow/Stun, fine - but why would the mana cost be almost 30-40 higher?

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diaster
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PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:26 pm

I'd actually like it if we changed lightning back to its old sniper class, but that's a more personal want. As for damage maybe give them chain lightning instead of the elemental or thunder bolt? and maybe give them the naga lightning skill. Simple skills, but they work so well.
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Lagger09
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PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:08 pm

both chain lightning and forked lightning are quite random, and i thought we were trying to avoid randomness. we could do a chain that selects the nearest unit.
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Belial
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PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:53 pm

Thunderbolt can't really be considered a nuke. More like a firecracker.
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Jay.J
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PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:54 pm

My point remains. I don't know if any spell (Besides maybe thunderbolt) needs a remake, just the spells should be changed (And buffed possibly in that way) so they incorporate power. For example, Crack could do 12/15/18 units moved per power (Max range). Overall, a high power mage would crack further than it is now but a normal mage would be cracking at what it is now (Overall buff). Same thing goes with Taser, like 0.75x power at max level damage, so it can be considered a semi-nuke. If it's supposed to be a power element...don't make it have skills that are COMPLETELY unreliant on power, at least not ones that aren't passives...

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PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:53 am

That sounds fine to me. Also, did anyone remember my suggestion for a remake to Thunderbolt?

Chain Lightning: Deals 1/1.5/2*Power and bounces 3/4/5 times. Cannot bounce to the same unit twice. Each bounce increases the damage by 25%. Each hit can critical with Precision Strike. It always jumps to the closest unit.

That means that on the first target it's likely to do just under 200 targeted damage, but you can do anywhere from 300-600 damage on the later hits depending on how well you set it up. It should be fairly easy to code too, since it's based on a spell that is already in the game.
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PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:57 am

lightning isn't weakest...

its just the most in need of a re-do.


the instant 5*pwr, crack, purge, thunderclap, and a possible thunderstorm (and even static) were way too good together.

but now its just broken...


maybe it would be good if lightning-strike was a 100AoE spell that targeted the closest enemy (in that AoE)?
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Jay.J
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PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:35 am

The "Instant" is stupid. Make it slower and it doesn't matter. You can go melee range with crack anyway. Lightning doesn't play like a sniper class Neutral. It plays like a suicidal hero, or a support hero.

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PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:12 pm

changing the elemental or tazer to some slow+dmge per sec based on power non channeling would be nice called shock or something

and with my lv 62 lightning thunderbolt hits for like 420 if somehow they all hit a target
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PostSubject: Re: The Weakest Element   Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:05 am

Ive been attempting to create a good replacement for the Lightning elemental, hasn't been going well because I suck at conceptualizing ideas for spells, they are so very generic. You guys can try to make one but you guys are way over the top when it comes to that, I have to find a middle ground somewhere.

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